Donna Lee Pratt Interview, 23 April 2008

Matthew Ferraton [00:00:04] My name is Matt Ferreton. I am working for the UCI CSU Oral History Project. Today is April 22, 2008 and I am here today with Donna Lee Pratt, longtime Hessler resident. Donna, when and where were you born?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:00:18] I was born in Cleveland, Ohio, 1943.

Matthew Ferraton [00:00:25] When? What part of Cleveland did you grow up?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:00:27] Shaker Heights.

Matthew Ferraton [00:00:35] How long did you live in Shaker Heights?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:00:40] Growing up until I was 22

Matthew Ferraton [00:00:44] During that time, as you were growing up in Shaker Heights, what was the community like growing up there?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:00:54] We had a lot of neighborhood activities. There was a lot of pride in both the housing and the schools and the quality of life that the community offered its residents. And I think we were pretty proud, perhaps to a fault.

Matthew Ferraton [00:01:15] You mentioned neighborhood activities. What kind of activities did you engage in?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:01:24] The families were all connected by the children and because I lived in the Boulevard School District, we all lived around the playground. So there were a variety of sports activities that would be pick up as basketball planned, baseball games at your leisure, soccer games in the schoolyard. Additionally, the schools offered good music programs and summer camps for kids and good athletic programs. Important probably to this situation this conversation is that the schools regularly delivered us to the University Circle area where we visited all of the museums and learned to feel quite comfortable and at home. Also, the music programs both in school and I studied music with people from the Institute of Music brought us to the area.

Matthew Ferraton [00:02:41] When you came to University Circle during this time, what was it like? Or to put it another way, how has it changed?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:02:55] The activities are more integrated. With the creation of University Circle Incorporated, the opportunity to coordinate both the construction planned activities between the museums and the institutions has enhanced what for me now is my home area. And. Because we've all worked together to develop a sense of community, we've been able to develop appropriate security systems that are not intrusive but supportive. The creation of the University Circle Development Corporation, the coordination of the museums on special events has enhanced both the availability and attractiveness of the area to visitors. I manage rental property in University Circle. When new medical students show up looking for an apartment, I send their parents off with a ticket to one of the museums and conduct my interviews in my office orientations without benefit of parents who come back ecstatic about the new neighborhood.

Matthew Ferraton [00:04:28] You talked about when you were growing up in Shaker Heights that there was a sense of pride among the community. Can you describe exactly how? What was this sense of pride?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:04:40] Like we had to have. All of us were supposed to be superior and I'm not sure that we were but we believed we were accomplished at school in sports and in music.

Matthew Ferraton [00:05:02] Was there- I find it interesting. Was there any pressure that you recall, maybe from adults, to live up to this standard, or was this kind of a?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:05:13] I can only speak for my own family. And it was an opportunity not to be lost. That brings its own pressure. But I did not find it offensive or oppressive.

Matthew Ferraton [00:05:32] The sense of accomplishment that you and as a community were looking for, in what ways or what did you do to try to bring about the sense of accomplishment for yourself and the community? [inaudible] Shaker Heights. I'm sorry.

Donna Lee Pratt [00:05:53] [laughs] I've lived in University Circle longer than I lived in Shaker Heights. I think that for me and most of my immediate friends, music was a central part of our activity. And because the musical world focused on University Circle, we felt that both places were our home. In terms of the immediate neighborhood or the school system, we enjoyed as a community a reputation that we felt we had to sustain, and that was we were the best.

Matthew Ferraton [00:07:04] You had attended the Institute, the Cleveland Institute of Music in University Circle, is that correct?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:07:11] Most of my music training was at the Settlement.

Matthew Ferraton [00:07:16] What is the Settlement? For the listeners. What is the Settlement?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:07:20] Music School Settlement is an organization, nonprofit organization, that you can probably provide better history than I can, but has provided both class training and individual private instruction in music and dance for as long, for at least 60 years. I was trained as a dancer as well as playing a variety of musical instruments, and as a young adult, also taught dance at the Music School Settlement.

Matthew Ferraton [00:08:02] During this time, what was your experience like at the Music School Settlement?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:08:10] It was probably an important part of my feeling that University Circle was where I wanted to establish my home. The opportunity to take private lessons and to participate in group activities and to explore different dimensions of music, And in addition, learning to know people outside of my community from Shaker Heights and developing fast friendships that have really lasted my entire life.

Matthew Ferraton [00:09:00] Are you still involved with the institution?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:09:02] Anyway, I give them money now and then. I try to go to recitals and concerts.

Matthew Ferraton [00:09:10] Just real quick. Out of curiosity, has the environment there changed in any way or? And if so, how has it changed at the Institute of Music or at the Music School Settlement?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:09:24] The Music School Settlement. I can't tell you that it's changed significantly, but it's expanded dramatically. And I think far more outreach has been successful.

Matthew Ferraton [00:09:38] In what ways has it expanded?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:09:41] I'm not sure I can answer that for you, because I'm an outsider looking in. I send families coming to live in the area, will ask about different activities and for guidance. And I give them a free pass and send them over to make the inquiries. And they come back thinking it's wonderful.

Matthew Ferraton [00:10:07] Moving forward a little bit. You live on Hessler Road.

Donna Lee Pratt [00:10:11] That's correct.

Matthew Ferraton [00:10:13] When did you move to Hessler Road?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:10:15] I think it was 1964.

Matthew Ferraton [00:10:19] And you mentioned that you had moved there to Hessler Road in 1964 because of your connection with University Circle.

Donna Lee Pratt [00:10:26] That's correct. It was better than buying a car.

Matthew Ferraton [00:10:35] So at the. At the time, perhaps it's still like this now, being able to move to Hustler Road, what was it like? Did you have easy access to the local institute?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:10:47] I don't think I can spend more than seven minutes to getting to any of them on foot.

Matthew Ferraton [00:10:54] Over the years, living on Hessler Road, in what ways?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:10:58] The answer is yes.

Matthew Ferraton [00:11:00] In what ways has Hessler Road changed over the years?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:11:13] When I first moved on to Hessler Road, there were a variety of owners who had probably inherited the property but did not live in the community anymore. And my opportunity to live there was because I had the opportunity to become a janitor and custodian and then rental agent and then manager. More than one rental property, which also gave me the opportunity to invite people to live there, particularly the people that were active in the institutions in which I was active.

Matthew Ferraton [00:11:56] Over the years, living on Hessler Road, has there been any kind of content conflicts within the community that have taken place over the years that you recall?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:12:06] Well, I'm sure you've heard from others that our relationship with University Circle Incorporated has been checkered, as it has with the university at different times. Overall, a certain amount of tension has enhanced all of the institutional relationships. And I expect there will be great areas of cooperation and continued areas of contention as time goes on, and I view them as constructive.

Matthew Ferraton [00:12:48] You describe the relationship with the neighboring institutions as often checkered at different times. If you could describe one or several instances where there was conflict between the institutions and the local community?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:13:08] At the time that I first moved on to Hessler Road, most of the properties were owned by individuals. The University Circle, which University Circle Development Corporation, attempted to purchase on behalf of a variety of its member institutions as much land for redevelopment as possible. The process there affected us significantly by depopulating University Circle and depriving it of a support. A neighborhood support system in neighborhood residents for staff and institutional attendees. There was a. In the '60s and the '70s, the architecture school. There was an architecture school Case at Western Reserve. Became involved in profiling the neighborhoods within University Circle in identifying the benefits of the Architecture to community. A significant portion of those architecture students that were involved in that project lived on Hessler Road and so invited all the residents to participate in the process of identifying what makes a community work. The product of the project of the investigations from the architect's point of view, was that community development is enhanced by significant architecture involvement of residents in the maintenance of their neighborhood and developing communities that include both residents cultural activities and businesses. Consequently, we developed the food co-op, we developed a variety of local consulting businesses, art studios, And established a core of pretty stable residents committed to the community, which did not. The faculty in the architecture department supported the neighbors efforts to sustain residential presence in University Circle. And that support for us was significant enough to trigger the conflict with the University Circle about purchasing and converting all available land and demolishing and destroying the historical fabric of the area. An appreciation for sustaining elements of the historic character of the neighborhood has enhanced over the long run the attractiveness of the area to both students and to some businesses. And the businesses we attract are unique and have enhanced the overall life experience for both visitors and institutional participants.

Matthew Ferraton [00:17:25] You said that through part of your efforts that it attracted unique businesses. What type of businesses have come to the neighborhood through your efforts?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:17:36] Some of them have left because somebody ate up the space at the corner. When you say the properties that were located at the intersection of Mayfield and Euclid and properties in small retail areas that are now dorm space were perhaps as valuable as small retail areas as they are as not very attractive dorm space. And I think that there is some effort by the part of the University and with the help of University Circle Incorporated to reexamine the relationship of living space and living experiences to the institutions and making... at least the institutional construction more neighborhood friendly.

Matthew Ferraton [00:18:53] Was there any effort to try to stop the process of effectively moving these businesses out by reclaiming that property, that you recall?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:19:09] The institutions were moving the businesses out.

Matthew Ferraton [00:19:12] The unique businesses that you mentioned, you mentioned that some of them are now gone. And if I understood correctly, it's because developers decided that property was more valuable, as I believe one of the examples was dorm spaces. Was there any effort on the part of the community to put a stop to that process? Or was it something that- [crosstalk]
Donna Lee Pratt [00:19:35] The period was one of great community effort with a lot of noise and a lot of demonstrations. [laughs] But the more fruitful efforts really focused on a number of us going into city planning. I'm sure you've talked to Norm Krumholtz?

Matthew Ferraton [00:19:58] No, I have not.

Donna Lee Pratt [00:20:02] And a number of us went into government work working in community development. And I worked in human resources to develop job training programs. The job training programs I developed were primarily made available to youth, young teenagers on summer programs. And I tried to bring those young people into the University area to get a combined exposure to higher education, art and summer activities that also helped us keep the streets clean.

Matthew Ferraton [00:20:38] Would you say that over the years, working with you human resources and developing these job training programs for youth, would you say that this has been a success over the years?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:20:53] I think that the success exceeds the governmental effort, which was initially a way to distribute income. Those of us working at the hall at the time and in the community saw it as a way of reclaiming citizens. And I am delighted to see young people that I first saw as rotten little kids [laughs] working throughout the institutions in the Circle and working for the city.

Matthew Ferraton [00:21:32] You talked about working with, if I understood correctly, you worked with city planning, or were you-

Donna Lee Pratt [00:21:39] No, I worked for human resources and economic development. The federal grants for the job training programs went through economic development and human resources. But in order to create the jobs with which the to retain for the young people in the summer programs, I would work with city planning to identify appropriate activities that would engage the young people in connecting with enhancing the city they live in. The schools were a major portion of that. Too much of the grant work was. Under the school's jurisdiction. But the money went. The federal money went through the city to the schools. And so I worked with the school system. To develop those programs. Now, historically, they had primarily used them in playgrounds. What we added to that was we created new playgrounds in the neighborhoods.

Matthew Ferraton [00:23:00] Name just one or two playgrounds.

Donna Lee Pratt [00:23:02] I can't even remember. I'll look them up and call you.

Matthew Ferraton [00:23:09] You talked about creating these activities for youth to participate in. If you could just name one or two of these activities and if you could describe what kind of activity would they engage in?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:23:26] There was money to employ young people in neighborhood cleanup. By combining that with the community development activities and the city planning activities through the Cleveland School System, they would learn about the neighborhoods they were cleaning up.

Matthew Ferraton [00:24:12] We touched on this a little bit, but you had mentioned earlier about how you were working with the community to, as you put it, to create enhanced life experiences. If you could, if you can describe it, what exactly you mean by enhanced life experience? In what ways were people's lives or their life experience in the community and perhaps even on Hessler Road? How was their experience?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:24:49] Well, I mean, there are two dimensions here for the young people throughout the City of Cleveland. Being able to bring them into the area to work instead of Just to visit, allowed them to, required them to interact with different people than they went to school with or in the immediate neighborhoods in which they lived. The cross fertilization of culture and mores had some good benefits and some bad benefits, but it certainly was broadening.

Matthew Ferraton [00:25:07] You talked about, you had mentioned this crossing of cultures. What cultures were being crossed?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:25:17] At the time that I was working with the city on this particular. On these projects, it was shortly after the Hough riots. So there was a substantial new population, minority population, that through the participation in programs in the Circle, were working side by side with young people from other communities in and around Cleveland. Have to be careful. The- It was very easy to employ young people in cleanup activities. But if we were able to link it with cultural education, it became a life-changing experience for a number of those young people.

Matthew Ferraton [00:26:50] You mentioned that through this process there was good and bad results. What were some of the good results and what were some of the bad results, and in what ways were they good and bad?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:27:11] In terms of the good results, you clearly had young people who returned as counselors the next year who were eager to share their good experiences with younger children. And at that time we saw an increased number of full time students in the junior high and high schools participating in extracurricular activities. I don't know the extent to which that continues now. I think that the schools have maintained very close relationship with University Circle Institutions. The. There were some difficulties in that. There is an element associated with the institutions and University Circle that likes it to be quite the way it used to be. And developing a tolerance and sensitivity and appreciation for the extremes on either end of that continuum continues to be a challenge.

Matthew Ferraton [00:28:44] So-

Donna Lee Pratt [00:28:44] But I don't think it's a particular issue anymore.

Matthew Ferraton [00:28:48] Was this the period that you just described- I neglected to ask. What time period was this?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:28:55] We were talking early '70s.

Matthew Ferraton [00:28:58] I'm sorry, what was it?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:28:59] Early '70s.

Matthew Ferraton [00:29:00] Early '70s? You had mentioned that you did get some form of resistance from some of the local institutions who were trying to maintain the status quo, basically, or trying to prevent some of these changes or keep things the way they were. In what ways that you recall did they try to do this to maintain the status quo?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:29:25] I don't think that the institutions initiated it. I think it was a reaction of certain trustees or certain groups that considered themselves important to the institutions. I would credit the institutions with trying to expand, to extend support for a more integrated community.

Matthew Ferraton [00:30:02] You mentioned the Hough Riots. Do you recall anything from the Hough Riots? Did you experience this in any way?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:30:09] Yeah.

Matthew Ferraton [00:30:12] For the listeners, when was- When did the events take place?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:30:16] I can't even remember. Can you remember when? '60, '63, maybe.

Matthew Ferraton [00:30:25] Wrote it down. That's okay.

Donna Lee Pratt [00:30:28] '65, maybe. '64. '63. It was also the same time as the Weather Underground and the university was- University closed early in order to defuse the conflicts from the protesters, which is a different element from the right.

Matthew Ferraton [00:31:03] How is it a different element?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:32:09] They were different. The riots were primarily residents expressing frustration. The protests were expressing, initially expressing disagreement with the governmental position on the war, but it took on the protesters, became a community in and of themselves. And there were elements of that group of residents who were strongly represented here in University Circle that were. Inclined to disapprove of institutions in all colors. And. The presence of a location like Hessler Road provided an opportunity to resolve on a non institutional basis the differences between specific people who then were able to hopefully go on and bridge the cultural gap.

Matthew Ferraton [00:32:51] In what ways did residents on Hessler Road try to, try to help resolve these differences or these problems that were never taking place during the time?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:33:02] Well, we hosted a lot of people from a lot of different places who were otherwise not welcome. And we host. But we were also representative of owners in institutions who expressed a considerable anxiety about the influx of young people eager for activity and. And not accountable to anyone.

Matthew Ferraton [00:33:43] What kind of activity?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:33:45] Basically, what we did on Hessler was we opened up the property so that people could camp out. We worked with the University Circle Police, who were not necessarily supposed to be our friends, but were.

Matthew Ferraton [00:34:07] During the 1970s?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:34:09] Yeah. And then convinced the university to open up the gymnasiums for overnights and to create opportunities for discussion. And that it didn't take care of the war problem, but it took care of problems that might occur in the immediate neighborhood.

Matthew Ferraton [00:34:39] Going back to the Hough Riots as they were taking place. How did Hessler residents respond to the rioting that was taking place?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:35:17] Well, there was a lot of anxiety. It did not particularly affect us except for proximity and police officers from both Cleveland. And we didn't really have a police force in the university at the time. But the police officers would almost take refuge on Hessler Road because there wasn't much they could do and they had to be close to it. And they provided us with some protection that we weren't sure we needed, but they were eager to offer and provided us with the opportunity to develop relationships with both the National Guard and the local police officers that lasted over time.

Matthew Ferraton [00:35:47] You mentioned the Weather Underground. What was the Weather Underground?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:36:53] Beats me. [laughs] I can't address that directly because in my situation, I was managing property. I Had tenants who were involved in all kinds of activities. And my particular attitude was that I would support anybody and everybody in whatever activity they were interested in engaging, so long as it did not interfere with peaceful enjoyment of the premises. And if people were here and they needed to eat and they needed to have a place to sleep, I do my best to make sure that that was done. It also gave me the opportunity and the neighbors an opportunity and the institutions opportunity to intervene in a positive and supportive way and avert conflict.

Matthew Ferraton [00:36:53] What time period was this? That, for instance? The Weather Underground.

Donna Lee Pratt [00:36:56] I think that was early 70s.

Matthew Ferraton [00:37:00] You said that yourself and the community would intervene in a positive way to try to reduce the chances of conflict. What were some of the actions that you would take to bring this about?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:37:12] We'll start with potluck dinners. Take your pot out on the street. Start cooking and offering people food. Take out an instrument, sing a song. You want something to read? Yeah, I got an extra flashlight.

Matthew Ferraton [00:37:38] Did you have any experience or were you able to perhaps talk to some of them? And if so, did they ever express what their grievances were as to why? Maybe they would be inclined to perhaps, maybe to possibly resort to certain measures or join certain groups that may be what some would call maybe reactionary or radical?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:38:05] I cannot tell you that I recall anything anybody said. I can tell you only that my sense was that in general, people needed to. Experience. A new sense of community and that the easiest way to experience it was through conflict. And our job was to expand that community, to bring harmony. And any isolated community cannot be harmonious.

Matthew Ferraton [00:39:01] Moving forward. Are you a property manager on Hessler Road, Is that correct?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:39:08] That's correct.

Matthew Ferraton [00:39:10] What made you decide to become a property manager?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:39:12] I needed a place to live in. The only place that I could find immediately available, required that I be the custodian.

Matthew Ferraton [00:39:20] And when did you start?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:39:22] The 1964.

Matthew Ferraton [00:39:26] So being a property manager also, and starting as a custodian, have you been in many of the. The properties on Hessler Road?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:39:38] All of them.

Matthew Ferraton [00:39:38] All of them going back to the 1960s when you first began working?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:39:45] I want to- I know you're structuring the interview, but I can't diminish the importance of the presence of the architecture school and that the presence of an architectural department at Western Reserve University in the location of at least a third of their attendees as residents on Hessler Road, with their focus on what kinds of architecture and city design creates a community?

Matthew Ferraton [00:40:24] The architecture school, what kind of architecture are they trying to develop to create this sense of community?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:40:37] Because Hessler Road was a community and the instructor knew it. He engaged the residents living on Hessler Road, plus the students who were not residents of Hessler Road, to examine the difference in their living experiences and to identify the portion of the experience affected by scale. The closeness of living quarters, the density of the living quarters, the diversity of the properties in a particular neighborhood. Identifying architectural elements that created a sense of neighborhood. Identifying architectural elements that contributed to isolation.

Matthew Ferraton [00:41:36] What are some of these architectural elements that create a sense of neighborhood?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:41:44] Front porches [laughs] are the most important dimension. And small yards.

Matthew Ferraton [00:41:56] The houses or the properties on Hessler Road, do they have these characteristics, small porches? Or front porches and small yards?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:42:05] And there are only two buildings on Hessler Road that do not have front porches, and those were the last two buildings built. The last building on Hessler that was built now has back porches and the other building has a backyard that's adjacent to the Mandel School. And we worked with the Mandel School to develop a common green space recreation area between. Because that used to be our garden. [laughs]

Matthew Ferraton [00:42:51] When did it used to be your garden?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:42:54] The Hessler community, starting with the riots, Engaged, worked with the University Circle, well, with the Architecture School, who worked with University Circle Incorporated to develop community gardens on vacant space. And so that allowed us to profitably use the garden space. It allowed us- We would sell the produce that we didn't use ourselves. In fact, I think we gave most of it away. It provided meeting space with activity that allowed for individual expression. Nobody was in charge. The neighbors and the institutions and botanical gardens, etc. Contributed information, technical assistance and equipment. The- Because it's a community made up of both quasi-permanent residents and transient residents, the opportunity to have a street fair, the creation of the gardens, the creation of a variety of book clubs over time has allowed people to participate to the extent to which they were interested, whether or not they participated. It's hard to think if you're living on Hessler Road, that there aren't other people around you doing something to help in enhance the quality of living. These community gardens, the university has a way of eating them up.

Matthew Ferraton [00:45:26] That actually leads me to- My next question is, if I heard correctly, the community gardens, or at least some of these, are now converted into playgrounds or some other form of use. And if so, I was-

Donna Lee Pratt [00:45:40] Case Western Reserve prefers to create parking lots.

Matthew Ferraton [00:45:48] So the- So some or all these community gardens are now parking lots. When did they convert these community gardens into parking lots?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:46:02] As the need arose. At the time of the first community garden. In my experience, there may have been community gardens when my father was here too. I don't know.

Matthew Ferraton [00:46:17] When was that year here?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:46:19] Probably 1968. It was in the early '70s, maybe that the garden started. The gardens were an extension of the architecture school's drive to engage its students in exploring the elements that create a good community. And we all took to it. And with the presence of the Natural History Museum and the Botanical Gardens moving back into the area. We had enormous resources available to us to make it work.

Matthew Ferraton [00:47:11] Was there any efforts on your part or other members of the Hessler community to try to stop the process of turning these community gardens into parking lots?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:47:27] There were efforts both diplomatic and not so diplomatic. The initial efforts were quite boisterous. Rent strikes to prevent demolition. Did pretty well with those. [laughs]

Matthew Ferraton [00:47:49] With the rent strikes?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:47:51] Yeah. The process of the rent strikes led to a series of initiatives in which the nonprofit institution of the Hessler Neighborhood Association was established. It's a 501(c)(3). It had the ability to purchase properties and to operate them in a mode that engaged the residents in the maintenance of the area. And the university was helpful, in the long run, in facilitating that. The portion of the university that was most helpful was the architecture school. I do not think that Hessler community would have developed as it has without the intense involvement of both the SASS and the architecture school in the number of architect school in training that lived on Hessler Road.

Matthew Ferraton [00:49:10] Does the architecture school still play a role today?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:49:15] What architecture school?

Matthew Ferraton [00:49:16] The architecture school that you have mentioned that it played an important role in the development.

Donna Lee Pratt [00:49:22] There is no architecture department at Case Western Reserve University. They are talking about restoring it next year.

Matthew Ferraton [00:49:28] For the listeners. I wanted to bring that up because at the time you had talked about the importance of it.

Donna Lee Pratt [00:49:37] It was enormously important.

Matthew Ferraton [00:49:41] So it's no longer there, no longer plays a role.

Donna Lee Pratt [00:49:44] That's correct. And it's missing.

Matthew Ferraton [00:49:51] You mentioned briefly about street fairs. What is a street fair or what took place at a street fair?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:50:12] Initially, the street fair was in order- was organized by the residents who at this point were pretty well organized, because of rents strikes and concerns about demolition, to primarily draw attention to the benefits of a close-knit neighborhood; to display the wares of a variety of residents, many of whom are musicians, many of whom are artists, sculptors, poets; to offer a larger community an opportunity to experience our sense of neighborhood. And we get to listen to the folk music on the front porch every night all summer whether we want to or not. But the larger community gets it, begins to experience that. The other thing is that we have so many musicians in the neighborhood, and they have formed fantastic musical ensembles, and to be able to gather them together of all ages and stripes and put them on the stage and record their different kinds of music and performance art for an audience of people from the community in the past, people interested in the community in the future, enhances both the residents' experience and the future residents' experience, and all the old residents think it's terrific. [laughs]
Matthew Ferraton [00:52:01] We're just about running out of time. Before we conclude this interview, is there anything in particular that I haven't covered or that we haven't touched on that you would like the listeners to hear?

Donna Lee Pratt [00:52:21] I think that the creation of wonderful suburbs, each with their own green space, each with their own private garage, has been. Has diminished the importance of depending on. Of neighbors, depending on each other for support in emergencies and for developing an ongoing relationship that's complementary rather than distant or not offensive. But that living in close proximity with a variety of people from all countries of this world and all economic groups has fostered a larger community of Hessler residents that really stretches around the globe. My husband and I have had wonderful experiences of either visiting halfway around the world or having those visitors return to us to make sure that the community sustains its vitality.

Matthew Ferraton [00:53:46] Okay, I have nothing else. And if you have nothing else, that concludes our interview.