Eugene and Emma Ross Interview, 2008

Eugene Ross [00:00:00] Okay, go.

Angela Robinson [00:00:01] Yep. This is Angela Robinson, researcher for the Cleveland State University's Oral History Project on University Circle. I'm here with Emma and Eugene Ross, longtime residents of the Collinwood area.

Emma Ross [00:00:22] Okay.

Angela Robinson [00:00:23] What is your name?

Eugene Ross [00:00:24] Eugene Ross.

Angela Robinson [00:00:27] And when and where were you born?

Eugene Ross [00:00:32] I was born January... [1924].

Angela Robinson [00:00:36] Okay. Where did you go to school?

Eugene Ross [00:00:40] I went to Marion, Kennard, Central. And I- We went all around.

Emma Ross [00:01:03] Emma Lee Ross.

Angela Robinson [00:01:07] And when and where were you born?

Emma Ross [00:01:10] I was born in North Carolina. Where did you go to school in North Carolina? Beaufort High School, mame of it.

Angela Robinson [00:01:22] And what are your occupations?

Emma Ross [00:01:26] Semi-retired. Right now we are school crossing guards. Yeah, My birthday is [1930].

Angela Robinson [00:01:35] Okay. And Mr. Ross, what that. What do you do?

Eugene Ross [00:01:41] I'm a jack of all trades, good or not. I work for Thomas G. Smith Funeral Home, 14601 St. Clair. I'm a school guard at- Mm-mm-mm, can't think of the name of the school right now over here.

Emma Ross [00:01:58] Hayden Road, over there.

Eugene Ross [00:02:03] Hayden, yeah. But that's not the name of the school. I can't think of it. And also I'm a housing court enforcement volunteer for Housing Court Judge Raymond Pianka, presiding Judge.

Angela Robinson [00:02:19] Have any of you- Have you two received any awards or special recognitions?

Eugene Ross [00:02:25] Yeah, I've got. He has got plenty of those.

Angela Robinson [00:02:30] Call them off.

Eugene Ross [00:02:30] Ain't no good.

Angela Robinson [00:02:32] I'm sure they are.

Eugene Ross [00:02:33] I want one night. 99. What's. What's that thing up on the chef for that I won Man of the Year award. The little play.

Emma Ross [00:02:45] I know what you're saying.

Eugene Ross [00:02:47] I'm trying to think of.

Emma Ross [00:02:48] That's what I see. The Man of the Year for the community was.

Eugene Ross [00:02:53] Yeah, Man of the Year award. Okay, and what, 1999? I think it was 99 or 2000.

Angela Robinson [00:03:02] And what was that award? What was the matter that he awarded? Was it fun? Like, why did you receive that award?

Eugene Ross [00:03:15] I was chosen by the peoples of Glenville to represent them. And I was chosen as the Man of the Year.

Angela Robinson [00:03:26] Glenville?

Eugene Ross [00:03:29] This area here.

Angela Robinson [00:03:30] Okay.

Eugene Ross [00:03:31] Not Glenville, Collinwood area.

Angela Robinson [00:03:33] Okay. Okay.

Eugene Ross [00:03:34] They chose me at the man of the Year.

Angela Robinson [00:03:36] Okay. Because of your involvement with the community.

Eugene Ross [00:03:41] Right.

Angela Robinson [00:03:45] And what- What were some of the things you- How are you involved with the community?

Eugene Ross [00:03:53] Well, mostly is going around special. I got the award because I was a housing court enforcer and helping people fix the home up. Now, if you didn't fix it up, then I write you up. Okay. And then I take you to court. Now, if I stood on the prosecutor's side, the judge gonna throw the book at you. If I stood on your side and give you a little mercy because I was the oldest man there. And then I also like to say that if you couldn't get along with me, and I'll give you a break, and I know the system. I was the only Black man there, and I was the only man that could go back in Judge Pianka's courtroom. I mean, not his courtroom, in this chamber. So I came out one day and the guy says, I've been watching you. Where you watch me for? He said, you the only man I seen, Black and white. You the only man I seen go in the judge's chamber and come back out. He said, I want you to represent me. I said, I can't. I'm not a lawyer. I'm a housing court enforcer. My job is to write you up. Now, if you don't comply with the law, then they'll throw the book at you. But I can go before the judge and ask the judge to give you extended time to get the repairs of your house straightened out. And if I spoke up for you, he would give you X amount of time, like people getting put out of the house. If you have a family, you can get 30 days. I call the WAP. And over 30 days, you actually can get 120 days. But you only can get 30 days at a time. Now, after that time, then we're going to throw the book at you. But I can always appeal your case because especially if you have children. But then again, you got to keep them children under control, like I got the neighbors next door. Those children are not under control. They are not under control. In fact, when the landlord come back, he's gonna throw them out. This generation, they just don't seem to care. I don't know, but I know most of them that to take them down, put them back up.

Angela Robinson [00:06:12] Okay. All right, so tell me, tell, tell me about the-

Eugene Ross [00:06:18] What's it?

Angela Robinson [00:06:20] Tell me about your awards here.

Eugene Ross [00:06:22] Well, I was- I was the auxiliary policeman. Okay? And I got special recognition from. Community Mediation Service. Wow. Special recognition. Yeah, that's when we were taking up training how to deal with people that, you know, couldn't handle things. And we had to go take 16 straight hours to. To get this award. And I was one of them that made. Made it. And this one was for what? Perfect attendance in the Neighborhood Leadership Conference. I had perfect attendance there. Then this one here was. When I was school guard at Longfellow School, they gave me this special recognition, and I got one from Cleveland State Neighborhood Leadership. Leading- yeah, pick it up. Neighborhood Leadership Conference. And when she got to guard there. But.

Angela Robinson [00:08:04] You are very active in the community. For, as the housing court enforcer, how do you, what, do you just go walking up and down the street?

Eugene Ross [00:08:15] No, the people would call in and complain about a house, okay? When they call in, that's in my area. Then I come out and I would talk with you and tell you these are the things that we have against you. And you must get this house fixed up. Now, if you don't get it fixed up, most times we allow you two weeks. And then that's when we come in. I have to come in. And then what had happened. I was the only black man, went to school for housing court, okay? But then I understand how the system work. And I had some white fellow, young white fellas teach me how to do it. And after they taught me, they would let me come to you. Then it's my job to try to convince you to get the house fixed up. And they'd tell you right quick, if you can't get along with Mr. Ross, you in trouble. And I tell kids and I tell people, period. The mighty sword in the world is a pen. Because whatever I write down on that paper, that's gospel could be a lie. But if I assign my name to it, it's gospel. So we as a race of people need to learn the law. Okay? So like I said when I went before Judge Pianka, all he do is watch me. Now, if I got over to the left, I'm on your side. If I got to the right, I'm on the prosecutor's side. If I got to the prosecutor, you're a dead man. So that's the whole thing in a nutshell.

Angela Robinson [00:09:52] How long have you lived in? Were you born in Cleveland?

Eugene Ross [00:09:55] Yes.

Angela Robinson [00:09:58] When did you move over? Have you lived in?

Eugene Ross [00:10:00] We came here in '65.

Angela Robinson [00:10:03] '65.

Emma Ross [00:10:06] Two more down there.

Angela Robinson [00:10:08] And what do you remember most about this community?

Eugene Ross [00:10:13] When we first moved here, we had Councilman Sweeney with the councilman George Forbes followed Sweeney. But when we first got here. You talking about prejudice. Oh, my God, this was prejudice. We had the old white German leader right next door.

Emma Ross [00:10:31] This is going to be on the tape.

Eugene Ross [00:10:33] So? I'm telling the truth! I ain't lying! And they were- They was a mess. And it was so bad out here then we used rubbish men- they'd taken rubbish out from here, put it on the street. And it got so bad. These people got so bad. When we first moved here, they named it- What was the guy's- Oh, shoot, what's his name? They named him- Black dude was up on 105. Oh, God, I can't call his name. Ralph, hand, give me that brown book, shoot, that little brown book. 1960, the Paxton book. He was the one sold all these houses, sold the Blacks. That brown book, that's it. Yeah, he- We call it what you call it, a boulevard. Of course, Isaac Haggins- Isaac Haggins, he sold practically every house on the street. And we named it Isaac Haggins Boulevard. And when we first moved here, we was not allowed to go past that alley. White folks didn't want us in here. But we were fortunate enough to buy this house because this guy was a contractor. This house caught fire, man. He turned around and rebuilt the whole house. We the only one got a kitchen like this. Now they got kitchen like this, but they're small. But he extended it out, okay, so that made it better for us. But going back to taking out the rubbish, them peoples would have their bowel movement, put it on paper, put it on top of the garbage can, cover it up. And then when the garbage man come and take it off, that's what they do, to look at their filth. So when the guy told me, I said, don't take no more. Sweeney went out, Forbes came in. So they called, said Mr. Ross? I said, Don't touch it. I don't want nobody to move it. Called George. George came out and pitched a fit. And then they stopped doing that, you know, stopped acting so foolish. Because, like I said, we came in, you couldn't live across street, across the alley. I had a court. So we moved up here because Tom, that's what his name, but I can't think of the last name. But he was a contractor. Him and his wife was having problems. So he gave us X amount of points in order for us to get this house up under GI Bill. That's how we bought this house up under GI Bill. Okay, the old lady over- that name- I don't know what her name was, but I do have a record of people staying here when we first moved here because we did form a street club. So I put Santa Claus out on the roof, and I had the whole shebang. And I painted Santa Claus Black. So she said, Mr. Ross, no, I didn't. Santa Claus didn't sled. I painted them Black. She was looking at me and she says, Mr. Ross, she says, can I see you? I said, sure. I come down, she say, Santa Claus and not Black. I sit right on her step, she said, Santa Claus not Black. I said, why is not Black? She said, cause he's not Black. He's white. I said, let me tell you something. And listen to me good. Hard as I work, nowhere in the world I'm gonna let a white man get that credit. I'm the one that going out here and that man kicking on my rump, okay? And I'm gonna give him credit. Ain't no white man coming down my chimney, okay? I'm gonna let my kids know I went out and worked 10, 12 hours to get this house and try to stay in this house for you, and I'm gonna get a white migrant. That ain't gonna happen. So they stayed here. She stayed here a little while, then they moved. Then eventually, it come out to be Black.

Angela Robinson [00:14:41] What? What? Where did you move from? Where did you live before here?

Eugene Ross [00:14:46] 110.

Emma Ross [00:14:49] From 124.

Eugene Ross [00:14:51] 124. Yeah. Okay. That was. Yeah, that was. That was good. Yeah.

Angela Robinson [00:15:01] Tell me about that area.

Eugene Ross [00:15:04] That was real nice because I came out here in '45- my first wife died. I got married in '40- '40- '45. I moved out here in '46. That's when we used to call it Oatmeal Hill. And Black peoples couldn't hardly pay the note, okay. And that's why we nicknamed it Oatmeal Hill. Okay? And I stayed at 9306 Pierpoint, right past, well, Mayor, last Mayor went out, Mayor White, but it wasn't Mayor White at that time. I forget the name of the school. But then we had. We went down Snake Hill and go down through the park. And then people didn't allow us in the park. They said, this is our park. Now I used to take the kids down there.

Angela Robinson [00:15:57] Over by Martin Luther King-

Eugene Ross [00:16:00] Yeah, yeah. We were not allowed there. Okay? I would tell you. Huh?

Angela Robinson [00:16:05] Wasn't there? Wasn't that a Black area?

Eugene Ross [00:16:09] Yeah, it began to get Black. Yes.

Angela Robinson [00:16:11] Oh. But it was still white?

Eugene Ross [00:16:13] But see, the playground, what it was is the problem with the playground- And the white people had their kids there. So when we moved there and we brought our kids there, too, and they had that doctor said, hey, this is our playground, you all kids. I said, the devil they can't. They gonna play here. And that's what they did. Okay? But one. That part, the playground they had was all for all white people. Blacks could not use that. That's why I tell people, these kids, you know, you don't know what we went through to get you all whatever. You all got to stand on somebody's shoulder. We had to stand on somebody's shoulders. Okay? So that was the whole thing in a nutshell. But I think our biggest problem was and is we did not tell our children what we went through to get you where you are today. Now that's a fact. I remember my mother working. Okay? For 25 cents a car fare. My mother, my aunt at independent laundry on 19th and Central. That's what they work for. But nobody never see that. Okay? So it's how I think some of us was ashamed actually to tell our kids what they went through. But you ought to be where you are today. So that's our fault, you know. But they really just didn't want to know.

Angela Robinson [00:17:37] So the area. So the Glenville Area, you said it was at 124th, 125.

Eugene Ross [00:17:47] No, Glenville area was larger than that. But 105. We started moving in on- Off street, you know, off 105, in fact. Motley, Marion Motley, he came out the kid's grandfather. He came out, he had one of the nicest house. It was. And then Mr. Nixon came and he was. He was at the barbershop.

Angela Robinson [00:18:13] These were Black-owned?

Eugene Ross [00:18:43] Yes. Okay. We had the tier one and that was Black-owned. Marion Motley and that's kid's grandfather. Okay. But we couldn't hardly make it. But we made it anyway. Okay. But that's why I'm saying we should have told the history how we got here and how we was able to stay here. Okay? Because at that time you couldn't already stay here. You just didn't make enough money just to get by. And we did a little bit. Not we but our forefather did a little bit of everything to survive to stay here by the grace of God. That we did because we had Dearing's and we had the Tia Juana and we had the Mercury Bar.

Angela Robinson [00:19:08] This was all- Was this all around 19?

Eugene Ross [00:19:14] To between 1945 and '50.

Angela Robinson [00:19:18] Okay. So it was not Jewish?

Eugene Ross [00:19:21] The Jews moved out.

Angela Robinson [00:19:23] Okay.

Eugene Ross [00:19:23] Okay. We had had one stay here and he was selling corned beef. Okay? Kosher place. But after that they gradually started moving on out, then Blacks taking over.

Angela Robinson [00:19:35] Okay. And why did you decide to move from the Glenville area?

Eugene Ross [00:19:40] Were you. Well, we get. We had Chester Boddy's house.

Angela Robinson [00:19:43] Oh, this was a larger house?

Eugene Ross [00:19:45] Yeah.

Angela Robinson [00:19:46] Okay.

Eugene Ross [00:19:46] Yeah.[crosstalk] We was renting.

Emma Ross [00:19:49] Maybe we were living on 124. We was renting, you know, the house, but we was renting.

Angela Robinson [00:19:59] Okay, were, when, before you moved out of the Glenville area, were there a lot of people starting to move out at that time?

Eugene Ross [00:20:20] No, they were moving in. A lot of 'em was coming up, was coming up from downtown area moving into the Glenville area because the Jewish people there- Just like anything else. Once we start moving in, they gonna move out. You know, white race gonna move out, and that's what they were doing.

Angela Robinson [00:20:47] Okay, you were moving out of the Glenville area to come here because of a larger house and-

Eugene Ross [00:20:54] Yeah.

Angela Robinson [00:20:56] What were some of the other reasons people were moving out of the Glenville area?

Eugene Ross [00:21:02] Well, we had a couple of nickels we could rub together.

Angela Robinson [00:21:05] Okay. [laughs]
Eugene Ross [00:21:07] So we took a chance, okay. Especially those of us, you know, with GI. Because I wasn't going to bother with it. But a fella worked with me, he got on me and we came on up here and we bought this house.

Angela Robinson [00:21:39] Were there any organizations in the Glenville area? Were there any community organizations back then?

Eugene Ross [00:21:49] I think we had street clubs. That's the first thing we started off with. But some of us was active and some of us wasn't.

Angela Robinson [00:21:57] And what did you do? What were the street clubs all about?

Eugene Ross [00:22:19] Street club was trying to teach us how to keep our property up. You know, cut your lawns and everything and make sure there's not no rubbish around the house and have the kids that stay off the people's lawn and if thing. And you couldn't play ball in the street like the kids are doing now. We had the playground and we could have to- They asked us at least go down to the playground and play.

Angela Robinson [00:22:33] Do you remember anything about the riots, the Hough Riots, the Glen- well, the Glenville riots? Can you tell me? Tell me your feelings about it? Tell me about it?

Eugene Ross [00:22:44] Well, I thought it was wrong. In fact, I knew it was wrong.

Angela Robinson [00:22:47] What's wrong?

Eugene Ross [00:22:50] When we had the riots, okay? And when I- When really, when I went out seeing what was going on, we, we- And I mean we. Those that were still- I wasn't getting there. I said, I ain't getting killed over some piece of meat. We were still in like maybe a package of hot dogs, stuff like that. The white man come along, still a whole cow, okay. Whole calf. And we just had a discovery by the time the police got here and everything. And he called us. Not me per se, but he. He called those of us that. As they called it Luton. He caught him. Okay, but Forbes, and was it Forbes? Yeah, I think it was Forbes and Carl Stokes. They came down through the area. I forget the guy's name that caused that thing. But they had to get out of there because they were so bad. The way they were shooting up and carrying on, that was our problem there. But like I said, we didn't get no big stuff. We got little small stuff. White man come in there and took out a whole cow, okay? Throw it in his car truck. And going by his business.

Angela Robinson [00:24:00] So white people were coming down.

Eugene Ross [00:24:02] Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Angela Robinson [00:24:03] During the riots?

Eugene Ross [00:24:04] During the riots.

Angela Robinson [00:24:05] They were coming down looting them.

Eugene Ross [00:24:07] Yeah, they were looting. They did more looting than we did. Okay, but see, they would get in the big stuff and steal the same thing. Today we get peanuts. When they go to jail, they steal big. So. And I learned if you steal enough money and they don't get it, you gonna get a small tie so you can get back out and spend that money. Okay? But we get into a nickel dime and we're gonna do a lot of time, see? And the kids haven't learned that.

Angela Robinson [00:24:40] Okay, can you talk on what? Don't record this yet.

Eugene Ross [00:24:45] Went back.

Angela Robinson [00:24:48] Can you say that again? I didn't get that. Can you say that again?

Eugene Ross [00:25:11] We used to have streetcar running in the middle of the street. So you would have to leave the curb and walk out in the middle of the street to catch the streetcar. Okay? Only thing about it this time, they built the shelter in the middle of the street too. So all you do is walk out and get in up under shelter and they pull up there and the cars have to run by the curve, okay? They couldn't run the same way, the streetcar, I mean, the same lane.

Angela Robinson [00:25:17] So do you think that the Euclid Corridor, it'll probably be a good thing?

Eugene Ross [00:25:22] I think so. I like it. Yeah, sure.

Angela Robinson [00:25:27] Are there any additional comments that you would like to make or- Ms. Ross, you've been so quiet. Something I might have missed or just anything that you?

Eugene Ross [00:25:43] No. Well, one thing, it's this generation, they haven't been taught. And part of it's our fault. Then you got families, kids raising kids, okay? And there's no respect. If you tell a kid, you go home, tell that kid's parent that they did such and such a thing. [telephone rings] Kid, if you go and tell a parent that. That your kid did something where- A kid hit my car one time and he hit the window. It didn't hurt it, but he hit the window. So I got after him. So one of the kids said, I'll show you where I live. And I went there and I told him, man, I says, I came in cause your son hit my car. He almost broke my window. He was sitting up there and he was drunk, pants all open and everything. He said, did he break the window? I said, no, sir, he did not break the window. But if he keep throwing, he's gonna break somebody's window. And somebody gonna whip your kid. He been there trying, now he drunk and the kid laughing. Okay? And that's the thing that bugs me, that when you getting ready to discipline the kid, the parent bucking you, I'll show you a better example. I never forget right here. My son skipped school. So they sent a note, said that I had to come up as my wife had to come up because he couldn't go back to school, PH, Patrick Henry. So I went up there and made some of the kids all around the wall come in. And I gave the principal, I can't think of his name now, but I gave him a note. He said, oh, I'm glad to see you, Mr. Ross. I said, well, I come up here to see about Allen because I work a night shift at RTA. I see what's what. So he hand me his portfolio. I opened it up and I started reading it. And I got mad as a bear. I said, now I'm up here working and you around here cutting scrap. I said, I tell you what. He looked at me, I seen the paddle. Said, give me the power. He gave me the power, look. I said, Bend over. He said, Mr. Ross. I said, yes? He said, you can't hit him but three times. Ooh! And the kids just laughed. Down. I said, okay. Said, bend down. I hit him three times. I said, beat me home. Then I got in that principal's face. Let me tell you something. Don't you never, as long as your mule point towards the ground, ever tell me that I can't hit my kid but three times. You sent for me. I didn't send for you. I'll hit you more than three times. Cause you sent for me. I've been working here all night long. Almost got skilled, skull and everything else. Then you get down here and you gonna make me look silly before these whole kids. So you think about it. He said, well, you know. I said, no, I'm not mad. I'm just telling you, you don't discipline me before these kids. You gonna discipline me, call me in your office. See, that's our problem today. Plus, what's his name? Doc Spock. He's the person that started the mess. He says, Don't whip a child, you know, punish him, discipline him. The Bible don't say that. He said, he, he who he loves, he chastened. Chasten means to whoop your behind. Okay? When you got a weapon, you obey the law. And the law was. Then when we came, when I came along, everybody whooped your butt, and you better not go home and tell it 'cause I told her once and got three whoopers in one day. Okay. Jumping off back of streetcar. Ms. Miller whipped me on 35th Woodland. I said, Mama. I went home. I said, Mama. She said, what, baby? I said, Ms. Miller whooped me. She said, what she whipped you for? I said, Nothing. She said, You're a liar. She grabbed me by the hand, took me down. Ms. Miller, I think her name was Nancy. My mama said, Nancy. She said, yeah. Said Eugene said you whipped him. Said, what you whip him about? She said, a little mannish rascal was on the back of a streetcar and he jumped off and almost got hit by a truck. And I whipped him. She said, thank you. She took me home and whipped me. When Daddy got home, she told Daddy and Daddy whipped me. So I made my mind up. Whoever caught me doing what, I ain't telling nothing. Okay? I'm gonna get that one whooping, leave it alone. That's where the communication broke down, okay? Because you don't want nobody to tell what your kid doing. I don't even tell me what my kid doing. The kid listening that he watching you. My mama say, don't tell her nothing. Then he gonna give you two for one. What you expect? That's our problem. Okay?

Angela Robinson [00:30:59] All right. Well, I want to thank you for helping me in this project.

Eugene Ross [00:31:05] Okay.