Dorothy Layne McIntyre Interview, 31 May 2013

Mark Souther [00:00:01]
Today is May 31, 2013. My name is Mark Souther.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:00:07]
Souther. Mm hmm.

Mark Souther [00:00:09]
Tim Klypchak is the facilitator here. And Dianne McIntyre is observing her mother's interview. Her mother's name is Dorothy Layne McIntyre, and we are in her home in Mount Pleasant neighborhood. Mrs. McIntyre, would you, would you say your name for the record so that we have it in your voice?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:00:32]
My name was Dorothy Arlene Layne McIntyre. Got that?

Mark Souther [00:00:45]
And please tell me where you were born.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:00:48]
I was born in LeRoy, New York, Genesee County, near– It's Upstate. Upstate near Canada.

Mark Souther [00:01:07]
And when you were growing up in LeRoy, I've heard a little bit from Donna about your growing up in Upstate New York. She mentioned that your father wanted you to go to school in New York, to college, I mean.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:01:29]
Yeah.

Mark Souther [00:01:29]
Can you tell me a little bit about what was on his mind at the time?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:01:36]
Well, we were about the only– We were the only Black family in the area, because he was in charge of 500 acres and developing all this, you know. And the reason why he– Because he was so intelligent in doing things, rotating crops and things like that, even though he was Black. But he was hired to make money for, you know, for this big place and had a big house there, double, you know, front and back and all like that. So they gave him that. But this is the way he was, tall, handsome, light, but he had nappy hair. He kept it cut short so you didn't know what he was. Blue eyes. That was my daddy. But it happens that way because he came that way.

Mark Souther [00:02:55]
What types of crops did he grow on the farm?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:02:59]
Oh, I can't remember. They were so large, 500 acres. They had spanned places out there. And he had to hire people, you know, to work the farms and all like that. And he did such a good job for those people that they were crazy about him, because if there was any mistake about him being the boss, he would just keep his hat on and cut his hair real short. Keep your cap on.

Mark Souther [00:03:31]
When you were growing up on the farm, do you remember what you liked to do for fun on the farm, or did you help out on the farm?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:03:41]
Mmm. No. Well, I knew how they did the crops and all like that. And then the house was so large that my sister and I, we were in charge of one front and back, you know, once a week. On the weekend we had to do that. We weren't lazy. We didn't grow up lazy little girls. And then when I finished high school with a high record, you know, because when you're all Black, your expectation is not high. The expectation. But I just learned everything everybody else did. The head was there. What you gonna do with it, huh? So I enjoyed being there. And the worst part about it was that my mother died when I was five. I got a picture of her in the dining room, standing beside the brick wall in the hospital in Rochester, New York. I was near Buffalo, Rochester, and Canada. And then I went to college. When I decided to go to college, I didn't want to go to college up there because, you know, in the South and all, they didn't understand my people. But I heard of really a well-accredited college. And where was it? And where was that college, Dianne?

Dianne McIntyre [00:05:49]
West Virginia.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:05:50]
Help me remember that. I finished. Huh?

Dianne McIntyre [00:05:53]
West Virginia State.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:05:54]
West Virginia State. And I went there, and going down there just before World War Two, and I went there and then I got a scholarship because, you know, my rating and all like that. And while I was there, guess what was offered. World War Two was coming. They would let one woman and a group of ten men train for small airplane. Piper Cub. Uh huh. So I took it and passed right now. And I loved it. I just loved just– I just loved going up abroad. I was going close to heaven. I loved it. And then this is why. Black college. But this is why. Well, yeah, West Virginia. Yeah. This is why they were trained, World War Two, to go to Europe to fly and, you know, and drop the bomb, you know, drop whatever they had to do over in Europe. And of course, you know, it wasn't part of me, but I learned so much. This is the reason why they said, oh, because they felt that they were being well-trained as it was, so then they could take this. But there was a reason for it. They were trained to surround the white bombers from the United States. So when that flak came up from down there, huh, they could get it first. See, they surrounded them. There's a reason for things like that for Black folks. Do you understand? No. Do you understand what I'm talking about? Because I can tell the truth. I don't step back because I'm Black. Is that alright? Okay. [laughs] That's right.

Mark Souther [00:08:26]
You trained on a Piper Cub?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:08:28]
Yeah, on a Piper Cub.

Mark Souther [00:08:29]
Can you describe the plane, the first plane you trained on?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:08:33]
Yeah, the Piper Cub. That's the one. And it was enjoyable. And it was just like going to heaven. Honey, that was a good day.

Mark Souther [00:08:42]
Was that a one or two-seater plane? A two-seat plane or one seat?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:08:48]
Well, it's two seat because you had to have a trainer beside you, too, you know. Mm hmm. Always have someone. Mm hmm.

Mark Souther [00:08:58]
How long did you fly before you got to fly by, or did– You flew by yourself, I'm sure, after you were trained.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:09:05]
You had to train before you even tried, really a short distance. The training was really concentrated. You better do the right thing. I said, okay, I'll save myself. I'll get up there. But they were training. I didn't want to go up. They were training. There was a reason for it, for them training in this Black college because they could go to Europe and surround the white bombers. They were dropping them down.

Mark Souther [00:09:56]
You mentioned that, I think you said ten people were chosen from your college to train on the Piper Cub. What did some of the other women do when they finished their training? Did some go then overseas?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:10:13]
Oh, no, no women. [laughs] No women went overseas. No, just the men. Just the men. [crosstalk] It was just, I just wanted it for the experience because I had been on flights up there. They would have, you know, in New York State, sometimes they would have these flight things going on and go for a ride. Sure was beautiful to look down there and see how pretty and well-planned, isn't it? Well-planned. Everything is just–

Mark Souther [00:10:54]
Did you, are you referring to air shows?

Dianne McIntyre [00:10:59]
She could tell you about the WASP program.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:11:02]
Mm hmm. I've been to the air show.

Mark Souther [00:11:08]
Let's talk about the WASP program.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:11:11]
WASP. Do I remember 'em?

Dianne McIntyre [00:11:16]
Yeah, you applied to them. You applied to them.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:11:19]
Oh, I flew with them, didn't I?

Dianne McIntyre [00:11:19]
You didn't fly with them. You applied to them because they were the ones that [inaudible] the bombers [inaudible] for the men. You tried to get in that program.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:11:32]
They wouldn't take me?

Dianne McIntyre [00:11:34] That's what you said.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:11:35] Did I? I can't remember. Did I?

Mark Souther [00:11:38]
That's okay.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:11:39]
I can't remember. After all, I'm looking at 100. I can't remember everything.

Mark Souther [00:11:47]
That's quite okay.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:11:50]
[laughs] It was a long–

Mark Souther [00:11:50]
Yeah, I think you're doing great.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:11:52]
You think I'm do- You do?

Mark Souther [00:11:54]
Yeah.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:11:54]
Okay.

Mark Souther [00:11:55]
I hope I remember that much when I'm 96.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:11:59]
[laughs] 96.

Mark Souther [00:12:00]
I hope I do. So you were starting to say that you, I think you maybe were referring to air shows where you got a chance to fly in planes? [inaudible]

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:12:12]
Yeah, to fly, yeah.

Mark Souther [00:12:13]
Can you tell me more about that?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:12:15]
Well, they had air shows up there in New York State. We lived up near Canada. And they would, you know, train and then you could go for a ride. You know, you buy a ride. And my father would take us, you know, for rides up there in a small plane. Ooh, I thought it was so beautiful down there and everything, everything was so well-planned. The fences and everything separating different, and the grasses and all. Oh, I thought it was so pretty. Huh? That is well-planned.

Mark Souther [00:13:01]
When you were at these air shows, do you remember any particularly interesting or unusual planes that you saw that stood out to you?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:13:10]
It was Piper Cubs, usually, that they would take you. Sometimes you would get, you know, if several of you were going together, then there would be a little larger, you know, seats that we would get. So I heard about in World War Two. Yeah. That's why this well-accredited school.

Mark Souther [00:13:43]
When you went on after West Virginia State, I understand you kept flying. Can you tell me more about the time after college?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:13:56]
Did I keep-? Yeah, go to the airport.

Mark Souther [00:14:00]
Where do you fly and what kinds of planes?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:14:03]
I can't remember. Piper– They were, they were, they were all small, you know, because I was small, and I was such a good flyer because my weight, you know, [laughs] see the little weight, and I could get up there and keep going.

Mark Souther [00:14:23]
I understand you're among the first Black women to obtain a pilot's license in the United States and first in Ohio.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:14:30]
That's right. Because when I got it, people say, is she crazy? Is she crazy? But I was just learning something that was so beautiful, I thought, and I would study the weather. I knew how the wind was blowing, everything, before you go up, you know. Cause you actually, it's powerful up there, and you can feel it. The plane feels it. The higher you go, the. Ooh! They got you.

Mark Souther [00:15:10]
How did your parents feel about your training to fly? Were they very supportive or how did they feel?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:15:17]
Yeah, my father. Yes. Yeah. Oh, yes. Because my sister and I, we just did everything. You know, it was during the time that Black people were told to step back because of slave time. And so they always felt that even they had to get, in the South, they had to get an education in a little building, you know? And, you know, one teacher for everything? Oh, it was something. So where we were, it was better. We weren't told to step back, you're Black. Cause there was not enough of us there to step back. Yeah. [laughs] What are you gonna do with us, huh? And that's the way I lived. Hmm. Came up.

Mark Souther [00:16:37]
You came to Cleveland. You got your pilot's license in Ohio, but where?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:16:47]
I got my license, I was flying. Took the test. Where did– I don't know. I got the license. It's a piece of paper. I did, but I flew. I got my license at West Virginia State, didn't I, Dianne? Huh? Yeah, I got it there. That's where I got it. The men, but they take one woman, but they took the Black men, and they went to Europe to protect the bombers. So if that flak came up on him, the Black ones get it first. You know, I have lived, and I can tell you about it, because I only have a few more years to tell you what was going on 100 years ago. Hmm. But then one day recently, how did it happen? We, the United States, got a Black President. I said, [inaudible]. That's it. They haven't objected to him, have they? I haven't heard. Have you heard any objections?

Mark Souther [00:18:22]
Unfortunately, some. Unfortunately, yes. Some, like every president.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:18:28]
Everybody. Everyone. None of 'em satisfy you. But I said, hallelujah. What's going on? I should live this long to see that. You see, it's a living to see that. Cause I have lived through if you're Black, step back. Problems. Problems.

Mark Souther [00:18:58]
When you came to Cleveland, I understand that Alonzo Wright recruited you. Can you tell me about him?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:19:06]
What is he on? Alonzo Wright? I worked for him as– Did Wright for accounting and so forth. Uh huh.

Mark Souther [00:19:19]
What do you remember about him?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:19:21]
I don't know. What did he do? He rented all these gas stations, didn't he? Yeah. Boy, it was a lot of work to do that.

Mark Souther [00:19:31]
Do you remember anything about him as a person? Personality?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:19:35]
Well, he made a lot of money. And, you know, I recorded everything. And there were other gas stations, about six of them. I had to go and collect everything there and deposit and all like that. And guess what he did? He took the money home. Not– He didn't keep it to buy more, you know, to keep buy, to– He just ordered [inaudible]. And I told him about it. There were about six gas stations. And I said, well, I said, well, I told him, I said, look, they're going to cut you down because you have to pay for what you're getting or they cut you down. And he said, you are just a young colored woman who really doesn't know anything about business. I had did business administration because I wanted to help my people, you know, and I saw in what I had learned. But guess what I told him when I found that they were going to get him and shut him down and do everything. They would have to do that, you know, because he wasn't paying for what he was getting, you know? You know, you buy it and you sell it and then you pay that part that, you know, that you sold. So when I found out, when I told him what he was doing, he said, you don't know what you're talking about. That's not the way it's done. He said, young Black woman, you don't know what you're talking about. I said, okay, never mind. Next day I came to work, I said, worst thing has happened up in New York Upstate. Somebody is deathly ill, and I have to go, and I don't know how long I'll be going. You have to go and get somebody else to take care of your records. I left Cleveland, 'cause he would have said I did it, you know? I told him that. But he said, you Black woman, you don't know what you're talking about. I said, that's it. I didn't tell him. I didn't tell him. I told him it was wrong. But he said, you don't know what you talking about. Black women don't know how business is carried on. I said, oh, I'm sorry. I didn't say any more. And I went home, came back the next day and said, oh, the worst thing is going on. Somebody's deathly ill. I have to go. I have to go. You can get somebody else. You can get somebody else. Just let it stay right now. And you do the collecting and the paying and all. But you know how to do it. He knew how to do it because he took it home. So, bye. And honey, I packed my bag and I left Cleveland. [laughs] I was called. He went down. Huh? I said, ooh, you know, he paid me.

Mark Souther [00:23:45]
When did you meet your husband? I know you came back to Cleveland after that, right? And how long after that you were married?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:23:59]
I finished college. I came back to Cleveland, retrained as a teacher, 5th, 6th grade teacher. Came back to Cleveland.

Mark Souther [00:24:20]
Can you tell me about the school where you taught?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:24:23]
Paul Revere. I taught at Paul Revere until I retired because I had to do some work where you get a retirement when you get out. So I still, looking old as I am, still get my retirement. Nothing wrong with that. I got a lot of years.

Mark Souther [00:24:46]
Excuse me a second. I'm going to put this even a little bit closer. [adjusts microphone placement]

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:24:49]
Oh, I forgot what that was.

Mark Souther [00:24:53]
Yes. Let's pause for a second and Diane.

Dianne McIntyre [00:24:56]
Tell them how Alonzo Wright came to West Virginia State and recruited you. And also tell how he offered to pay for your wedding.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:25:08]
What did he do?

Dianne McIntyre [00:25:11]
The reason you got to Cleveland was because he recruited you. He came to West Virginia to look for a bookkeeper and an accountant.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:25:22]
Oh, that's right, an accountant. [crosstalk] He came there and they said that I was up there. So I said–

Dianne McIntyre [00:25:34]
Let's start the story from the beginning so it's in your voice.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:25:38]
What?

Dianne McIntyre [00:25:38]
Start the story from the beginning.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:25:41] about what?

Dianne McIntyre [00:25:41] About Alonzo Wright recruiting you.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:25:45] Yeah. So I left him, but went up there temporarily because I knew they gonna put him, but they shut him down. How did they do that? They found out what he was doing. [crosstalk] But I knew if I stayed here, he'd blame me, huh? Cause I was. He would say, I don't know anything about that. She must have my money. I was gone, honey. But I came back, didn't I?

Mark Souther [00:26:25]
Can you tell me about where you lived when you first came back to Cleveland when you were married?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:26:33]
Married Benny. Where was it where we lived? I don't know. Was it here? Was it here, Dianne? Westchester, wasn't it? It was. It was a double. I think one side was Cyril. His brother was two years older and he, Cyril, it was a double, beautiful double house.

Mark Souther [00:27:02]
Was he– That was your, I'm sorry, that was your father's brother that you're speaking of? Your uncle?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:27:14]
No, his– My husband's brother. My husband's brother.

Mark Souther [00:27:22]
Okay, I'm sorry.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:27:23]
Cyril and Benny. We got a double house, big, and we were raising our children on Westchester. That girl, too. [laughs]

Mark Souther [00:27:40]
So we're in the Glenville neighborhood.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:27:42]
Glenville? Where are we, Dianne? Dianne. Dianne helps me remember. You know, when you get old, your memory kind of softens. You can't help it.

Mark Souther [00:27:58]
Was it your– I did want to ask you about, I guess it's Dianne and Donna's uncle who was a Tuskegee Airman? Can you tell me anything about–?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:28:10] Who was?

Mark Souther [00:28:11]
Am I right on that?

Dianne McIntyre [00:28:13]
Herbert.

Mark Souther [00:28:14]
Herbert?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:28:16]
He was Tuskegee. Mm hmm. He was a Tuskegee Airman. How about that? Smart. I married a smart family, you know, be looking around. So World War Two come around and he was dating me and he said, and we were engaged, and he said, are you going to wait for me until I come back? I said, well, I don't know how long you will be gone. Oh, never mind. Ran downtown [laughs] and the preacher man, you know, and the preacher, he and some witnesses, they married. We didn't have a marriage. We had witnesses, you know, same thing. And they took him overseas. Wasn't that something? So. Oh, you know what? I've always been kind of, I'm more skinny than I was then, but he thought I was delicate. I didn't run the vacuum and do any of those things in the house because he had to take care of me. It's okay. I didn't– I tried to tell him I was a strong farmer, but he didn't believe it. It's okay. [laughs] We had a good life, I know that, with two daughters. Yeah. Where were they from? Where was he from? Where was your father from?

Dianne McIntyre [00:30:12]
He was born in Florida.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:30:14]
He was born in Florida, right.

Dianne McIntyre [00:30:16]
His father was from Jamaica.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:30:17] He was so smart. His head. He couldn't help it. Just had that head that kept going. Mm hmm.

Mark Souther [00:30:28]
Going back to your teaching at Paul Revere, what subjects did you teach?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:30:34]
6th grade. 6th grade, Paul Revere. [crosstalk] But wait a minute. I want to tell you. It was in the part of– It was in my, in the Black district. So I want to tell you one thing. I had a lot of children I had. What did I do? [crosstalk] So I had to teach them in sections, you know, teaching sections. And they were good. [crosstalk] They were good. And then while I was teaching, my husband passed, I think. And guess what? The children wanted to know, what can I do for you? Miss McIntyre, I'll cut your grass and do all those things that your husband had to do outside. They were– They were so sweet to me because they felt so bad. Why did they like me? Because I didn't holler at 'em. No, because in our section, they had to go to school and, oh, there was a big– I taught them in sections because there were so many.

Mark Souther [00:32:08]
That's what I wanted to ask you about, too, because I read and heard a little about the overcrowding in the schools, the Black schools in particular.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:32:19]
Yes, they were.

Mark Souther [00:32:21]
Do you remember how many people might have been in the classroom?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:32:25]
Forty at least. Forty at least.

Mark Souther [00:32:30]
And so they were on a staggered schedule? Half the day and half the day?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:32:35]
I don't know. In sections. I only know the sections. And then I had– Each section had a person who checked, you know, checked on them. I mean. What do you mean, supervised. Each section had one person who would report what they were doing. Right.

Mark Souther [00:33:01]
Do you remember in sort of in 1964, I believe '63 or '64, I believe '64, when Bruce Klunder, the minister who was protesting the segregation of schools and Glenville was run over by a bulldozer? Do you remember much about that?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:33:24]
I know it was terrible. Oh, no, it was terrible. Glenville. What? Was run over? Yeah, it was. Why did they do that? Why was it done? Glenville was run over. Why? Yeah, because it was Black?

Mark Souther [00:33:53]
I'm not sure if they ever determined. I'm not sure if they ever determined whether it was deliberate or accidental. But it didn't matter in some ways because it had happened.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:34:05]
Yeah, it was a terrible thing.

Mark Souther [00:34:08]
A terrible thing and it was–

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:34:09]
A terrible thing. It was because it was a Black.

Mark Souther [00:34:13]
I'm not sure whether they backed over him or went forward. They backed over him.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:34:20]
It was– It was done on purpose. I can't remember that too well. Everything happens in my lifetime. Huh?

Mark Souther [00:34:34]
Oh, it was determined accidental, but–

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:34:37]
It was determined?

Mark Souther [00:34:38]
It was accidental. Bruce Klunder's death.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:34:42]
I can't remember. My memory is not what it was.

Mark Souther [00:34:48]
It doesn't change the fact that what he was protesting was wrong and there was a real problem-

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:34:55]
It was a problem.

Mark Souther [00:35:00]
In the schools. Did you teach your entire career at Paul Revere School?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:35:04]
I did. What else did I do, Dianne?

Dianne McIntyre [00:35:09]
She was a social worker.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:35:11]
I was a social worker, too.

Dianne McIntyre [00:35:12]
[inaudible] Aged menopausal psychiatric social worker.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:35:18]
Psychiatric. That's what it was.

Mark Souther [00:35:24]
Donna mentioned that. I didn't know when you were teaching if you had been at more than one school or not. That's one thing that– [crosstalk]

Dianne McIntyre [00:35:30]
No. That last was her teaching career. First she was an accountant, then a social worker, then a teacher.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:35:38]
Oh, that's right. I was an accountant. I moved, didn't I? Was I moving?

Mark Souther [00:35:44]
Well, Donna said that you did several things over the course of your career.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:35:49]
Yeah.

Mark Souther [00:35:50]
Ended as a teacher.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:35:
Yeah, as a teacher. Yeah. Was I moving? Yes.

Mark Souther [00:35:58]
From one position to another, I mean.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:35:59]
Yes. But they didn't fire me. No, I saw, I saw something in that that I liked to do and I retrain I wanted to. I said I'd like to do that. It would be helpful to my children. I wanted to be helpful to my children that come up. And guess what? The children, I wasn't, I wasn't mean to them, but if they were having trouble, I wanted to find out. If they weren't learning, mm hmm. And I found out, and then we talked about it, and I, you know, so they straightened out things at home. [laughs] Isn't it terrible for me to investigate? Well.

Mark Souther [00:37:02]
Can you recall anything for me about St. Andrew's Episcopal Church?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:37:07]
Oh, yeah, that's my church. St. Andrew's. Fine. I taught Sunday school there, and I still– Oh, I send my everything there, and they send me, you know, programs and everything's going on. And I've been there in the wheelchair, but I can't go regular. I can't go because my back hurts. Is that alright? Hmm? But I still send my dues every month. It's on my list. Mm hmm. And they send me information, too, about what's going on. Isn't that nice? Mm hmm.

Mark Souther [00:38:01]
Can you tell me a little bit about when you moved to this house?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:38:07]
When I what?

Mark Souther [00:38:08]
Not the day– I'm not concerned about the year so much, but can you recall when you first moved to this house from Glenville, I mean, from Westchester over in Glenville?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:38:22]
I think we had a double house in Glenville, and then we moved here in a single house because they were going somewhere else. I can't remember, but I liked, we liked the location. I remember that.

Mark Souther [00:38:49]
Wasn't it near, it is, I'm forgetting now, your, not your parents, but his parents, right? Were nearby.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:38:57]
Were we, Dianne?

Dianne McIntyre [00:39:00]
Mom and Dad lived around the corner.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:39:02] Oh, they lived around the corner. That's what it was. His mother and father. So it was just, it's just good for us to do that, to help look after them. Baba and Dad. Baba and Dad. Uh huh. Yeah. That's our life. But he had to live– He sure took care of me. But he left me first. Mm hmm. He didn't– He thought I was delicate, and he didn't let me do, you know, heavy work, cleaning and all like that. I never did that. Mm hmm. [laughs] I said, okay. Farm woman. But he thought I was delicate. I said, okay. Especially after I got a heart condition, you know, different things. Mm hmm. Yeah, but he had to leave. Came over him. So got two– Now, who looks after me? Got two daughters. Not one, but two, plus another lady every day. No regular one. Mm hmm. And let me stay at home instead of nursing home. You know? Yeah.

Mark Souther [00:40:37]
Dianne, is there anything else that you think that we should ask that we haven't covered?

Dianne McIntyre [00:40:42]
Well, that picture up there, that's a picture of my father. Because I would maybe forget that when you ask about St. Andrews.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:40:53]
St. Andrews?

Dianne McIntyre [00:40:54]
Because he was on the altar there in the 1920s.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:40:59]
How about that?

Dianne McIntyre [00:41:01]
You can tell them about when we first moved on this street, about the population of who was living here when we first moved here, Mom.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:41:13]
I don't remember.

Dianne McIntyre [00:41:17]
[inaudible] the Black people.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:41:19] Were no Black. We were Black.

Dianne McIntyre [00:41:22]
Tell them about the block and how [inaudible]

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:41:25]
How?

Dianne McIntyre [00:41:26]
Do you remember, Mom?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:41:27]
No. What did they do?

Mark Souther [00:41:29]
What was it like on this block of your street when you first moved here?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:41:34]
It was real nice.

Dianne McIntyre [00:41:38]
Who were the people?

Mark Souther [00:41:38]
People?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:41:39]
I don't remember. What were they like?

Dianne McIntyre [00:41:43]
Well, they were nice. I guess I'll talk about it.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:41:46]
But they, but they moved out when we moved. Didn't they move out?

Dianne McIntyre [00:41:51]
Yeah. Tell them about that.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:41:52]
They moved 'cause they didn't wanna live near Black. That's all. I can't remember anymore. Huh? They got out and then when they sold their houses, it was all Black. Mount Pleasant. That's what it is. Yeah. They say, I'm gonna get out of here and live near these Black folks, because I think– But my husband worked. Where did he work? In the post office. Uh huh. You know, he worked in the post office. He had such a good head, you know, and you have to take examinations to do that. And he got such a high score, they had to take him. So they wanted to put him behind the counter. So they first, he ran on the road where you pick up mail and was it on a train or something like that. And he went up to New York State and came back. He slept over there. And then when he came in town, he was still working and promoted. He did so well. I don't know. He had such a head that he would be promoted. And so they. He's still Black like me. So they gave him a good job in Cleveland in the basement so they wouldn't see him. But he got it. He did it. But it was something about him, his accuracy, and he would do it fast enough so they'd get it in time. There's something about mail. Yeah, that's what it was. But I had a smart husband. Woo! That's why my daughters are so gone. My daughters.

Dianne McIntyre [00:44:21]
That's pretty good.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:44:25]
[laughs] Came from that. Came from their daddy. But he left me. Had to leave.

Mark Souther [00:44:34]
Is there anything else that you would to tell us today?

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:44:357]
About my- What is this for?

Mark Souther [00:44:40]
We're an oral history project at Cleveland State University.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:44:44]
About what?

Mark Souther [00:44:46]
Right. This summer, we're interviewing Blacks in Cleveland. All over Cleveland

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:44:54]
Just Black? All of the–?

Mark Souther [00:44:56]
Not just, but primarily.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:45:01]
Their background or what?

Mark Souther [00:45:03]
Well, just their experience in Cleveland.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:45:07]
Yeah, it's okay. Experience? We worked. You mean their work or what?

Mark Souther [00:45:16]
Well, just their life. You've told me about your flying and how you came to Cleveland and the different jobs you had and the places you lived. That kind of thing.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:45:28]
That's right. Oh, but how do– What do we think of Cleveland? But we always did. We always lived in a Black section, Dianne? No, we didn't.

Dianne McIntyre [00:45:45]
We didn't move, but the section changed.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:45:50]
They changed. That's what it was. Uh huh. I remember how that was. I'm so old about this. Huh?

Dianne McIntyre [00:45:59]
You explained it.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:46:01]
He explained it?

Dianne McIntyre [00:46:02]
You explained it. You explained it how the white people moved out.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:46:06]
Oh, when we moved in, they moved out. They said, take it. I said, okay, bye. [laughs] Bye. And a lot of them were poor white, weren't they? I forgot. I don't remember. I just– Bye. We just lived here all those years.

Mark Souther [00:46:38]
I appreciate your taking the time to talk with us today.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:46:42]
You are? You think I'm bad?

Mark Souther [00:46:45]
Bad? No.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:46:49]
To talk. Talk to us about what? My living.

Dianne McIntyre [00:46:53]
Well, now he's gonna– Now they're gonna talk to me. I'll tell them some stories too.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:46:57]
You? Shoot. Tell you about– Yes, she will. Because my children, they're up there.

Mark Souther [00:47:09]
Okay. Thank you very much.

Dorothy Layne McIntyre [00:47:10]
Yeah.

Dianne McIntyre [00:47:11]
You want me in that same spot?

Mark Souther [00:47:13]
Sure. That would probably, probably be good.