Melvin Walker Interview, 25 February 2013

Student [00:00:00] Can I take your hat?

Unknown Speaker [00:00:02] Unzip that.

Mark Tebeau [00:00:03] All right, fine.

Unknown Speaker [00:00:04] Got it.

Student [00:00:11] My name is Aaliyah, and the first question I want to ask is, where were you born?

Melvin Walker [00:00:17] Pleased to meet you, Aliyah. My name is Melvin Walker. I was born here in Cleveland, Ohio, born in St. Luke's Hospital [in] 1943.

Student [00:00:35] And how did you and your family come to live in the Cedar neighborhood?

Melvin Walker [00:00:41] Well, I first moved in this neighborhood, I think it was 1962. I moved down on Outhwaite, 48th and Hathaway with my family, my family, immediate family. I was- I had a wife and four children at the age of 23 years old, and we moved here. I was born here, like I said. My family came from Mississippi to Ohio. I was born here in Ohio, and I first moved in the neighborhood in 1962 with my wife and two children at that time. And before I left the neighborhood, which - that was 1965, when I moved from the neighborhood, I had four children now, but I moved over to the Glenville area then. I'm a graduate of Glenville High School, class of 1961.

Student [00:02:05] What sort of work did you and your family members do in Cleveland?

Melvin Walker [00:02:11] Well, Aaliyah. We had a term when I was coming up, I was a jack of all trades master, and I had, say, maybe 32 different jobs at one time. When I counter them up, and let me see, my first job, I'd say, was, besides high school, was the army, United States Army. So I did, well, I served for the year and a half in the army.

Student [00:02:52] Can I ask, which war were you in?

Melvin Walker [00:02:55] No war. Peacetime. I was in between Korea and Vietnam, you see? When I was serving, it was Berlin Wall, the Bay of Pigs, with Kennedy and so forth. But I was fortunate enough we weren't at war at the time that I served.

Student [00:03:24] Can you describe your house or your street or your [inaudible] that you lived in?

Melvin Walker [00:03:29] Well, I'm gonna say about this area. So I was in the projects. Okay, so what can you say about the projects? A lot of people staying in a small area. One thing I can say is, we were a community, then. I mean, it's a community now, but I see a community in this respect. We interacted with each other, you know, the neighbors, the children, the kids, whatever. We interacted in a positive way. And I was right across from- I don't know where your classmates are from. I know this is like a trade school, so you're probably from all over the city, right? Okay. But I was right across the street from POC [Portland-Outhwaite Center], the field for where East Tech used to practice and so forth, the band marching and the drums beating in the morning, waking people up, and etcetera, and the children up and down the street, you know, so very active, you know, very active in a positive way.

Student [00:04:49] Can you tell me about the particular restaurants, churches, or neighborhood institutions that you and your family often attended?

Melvin Walker [00:04:56] Well, I went to the Center. What is it, the Burton Center, now as far as recreation center on 40 what? 46? Yeah, 46. And I used to go there and play basketball, and I used to play basketball outdoors, you know, with neighbors, whoever came over to play basketball. And then the swimming pool was right there. So I used to do a lot of swimming and going swimming. Kennard was still there. I don't know if you ever heard of Kennard. Kennard Junior High School. It was right there on 46. Well, 46, 45th, 46 in between there. Central High School, which is on 40th, which is still here. I didn't attend Central. East Tech was at 55th. So you had- East Tech was on, say, the west side of 55th right at the corner, in other words. And then Kennard was down a little further west, all on the same street as Outhwaite. And it was right there, right at the end of the street. So, yeah, the junior high school. High school. I can't remember exactly where the elementary school was at that time, but it was all in the neighborhood. So we went to school in the neighborhood, you know, like elementary school, junior high, and high school, say, was within, say, one, two, maybe four blocks within each other, from each other. So it was all centrally located as far as the area, I guess y'all would call that Central. It was closer to Central than Cedar, as far as Outhwaite, but it was right, you know, right there in that area. Now, like I said, I moved to the area then. Okay. I left the area in '65, I think it was, '65, '66, and moved to Glenville area with my family. Okay, I'm back in this area, and I've been back in this area since I reached senior citizen. And I'm in a high-rise HUD building located about 22nd and Community College across from St. Vincent Hospital, which St. Vincent Hospital was here. But, you know, I didn't go down there too often to the hospital at that time. So I've been here at my present address 13 years.

Student [00:07:50] Did you go to church when you were younger?

Melvin Walker [00:07:53] Yes, I did. I was baptized at 89th and Quincy at Union Grove Baptist Church, Missionary Baptist Church, 89th and Quincy.

Student [00:08:13] Where did you and your family find entertainment?

Melvin Walker [00:08:16] Oh, wow. I found entertainment all over the city, but I didn't take my family and children with me all the time. But I used to go to Leo's Casino, which was on 70-, I think, 75th and Euclid. It was live entertainment as far as jazz and singers from out of town. They had, Gleason's Bar was right on Woodland at 55th. They used to have entertainment coming there, and they had quite a few clubs in this area. And all the ones that I used to go to, you know, you don't have the time, and I don't think my memory's that good to say all of them, but I was going a little bit. I was kind of active as far as getting around.

Student [00:09:14] I want to know, what did you watch on television? Like, did you go to movies and stuff like that?

Melvin Walker [00:09:20] Yes, I went to movies. I watched television. Beverly Hillbillies, you know, oh, Howdy Doody. I know you probably don't know anything about Howdy Doody or heard of it, huh? Okay. Howdy Doody. I remember when we didn't have televisions, okay?

Student [00:09:43] What did you do then?

Melvin Walker [00:09:45] Listen to the radio. Families used to gather around the radio and listen to The Lone Ranger, The Fat Man, The Shadow Knows. A lot of programs. You just sat up in front of the radio and listened to the programs and discussed them and so forth with the family. And, I mean, hey, it was great. I know it's great for you all, too, but at your time. But, hey.

Student [00:10:17] Can you tell me where were your best memories at around here? Around 30th?

Melvin Walker [00:10:25] I used to carry mail, okay? And I carried mail in zone three, which was in the area, say, 40th to 84th was the boundary, was east and west boundaries, and north and south would say, from the lake to Central Avenue. So all in zone three, I used to carry mail. I even carried mail at Jane Addams High School when it was over on Carnegie. Okay, long time ago. But I carried mail in zone three, was in that area. I was a substitute carrier, so I carried all the routes, let's say, within that area. So I walked through these projects and other projects, and just like all over the city, I'd say the mailman was the most significant job because I carried mail here. I carried mail in Los Angeles, California. Like I said, I moved around. I didn't stay, say, like stationary in one place.

Student [00:11:32] Do you have any questions?

Melvin Walker [00:11:34] Questions?

Student [00:11:35] Do you have anything you want to add?

Melvin Walker [00:11:37] Oh, I could add so much. I mean, you don't have time for me to start adding, because I've lived all over the city at one time or another. I stayed in the Mount Pleasant area, Glenville area, this area, Kinsman, Mount Pleasant, Harvard, Lee-Harvard, etcetera. But I guess you can tell by me talking that I didn't stay in one spot too long.

Student [00:12:04] So you have a specific story you want to tell me?

Melvin Walker [00:12:11] I say no comment on that. Have a lot of specific stories I'd like to tell you. All I can say is, it's beautiful. It's great. If y'all stay with whatever you're doing and you're doing the right thing now, because you're here in school, it'll be okay, you know? So it turned out all right for me. Oh, what can I say? I volunteer at VA hospital now, you know, which is the last place I worked also. And I went out on disability in 1990. So I haven't worked since 1990, been disabled. So there's so much I can say if I had specific questions, maybe about, say, this area, that area, Glenville area, graduated from, like I said, Glenville High School. And it's so many things that I can say about so many things. And somebody would have to ask me a question, and then I could, you know, make, try to answer.

Student [00:13:45] What was your most favorite activity you like to do?

Melvin Walker [00:13:52] Recreation activity? I would say recreation. I like to play basketball. And I thought I was pretty good, but I wasn't good enough to make any of the school teams or anything. But I ran track, and I did all right in that. I like running. Well, I can't do it now, but I like running track, swimming, basketball, handball, racquetball. Any kind of sport that you're active in, like running around and so forth. I enjoyed, you know, a lot. I enjoy thinking about it. I'm thinking now, y'all having me going back in my mind, and I'm thinking about playing basketball and different things. But hey, you know, some famous people, let's say that you all wouldn't know. Well, famous, maybe back in my time. And all good thoughts, you know, the running track, the swimming, the playing basketball, working out, being with people, being with people and getting to know people. And carrying mail was especially nice because I met somebody new, let's say every day. And it wasn't the same activity. It was always changing, you know, day in and day out, out there in the streets and so forth there's different situations. I carried mail, say, during, maybe somebody heard about doing the Hough riots. I was carrying mail when it started in that area. And I continued during. And afterwards because, see, everybody liked the mailman, you know, so I didn't have any problems as far as in the community, you know, during those times. And it was, you know-

Student [00:15:55] I'm sorry, I have one more question. Is there a certain smell you remember when you were younger?

Melvin Walker [00:16:00] A certain what?

Student [00:16:01] A certain smell that, like, brings you memories, like one of your favorite smells when you were younger.

Melvin Walker [00:16:09] I used to like to be around the kitchen and so forth when my mother was cooking. So it was a whole lot of different smells that would bring back, you know, memories, you know, fish fry, whatever, smell fish, what, you know, chicken frying, you know, oh, wow. You know, in the springtime, you know, when the trees start blossoming and so forth, the smell of that. I used to go down to the park a lot, you know, so they had different smells and flowers and so forth at the park, you know, and it's just the neighborhood, let's say. Different smells, people cooking and whatever. So a lot of things bring back memories. If you all are fortunate enough to attain the age let's say that I am now, I'll be 70 years old next month if I live that long, you have a lot of memories, say, in 70 years, and for me to go back and specifically say this or that was the best, you know, they all were good, you know, all kind of smells. Thighs cooking, cakes, whatever, you know, I mean, not that I'm greedy and a hungry individual, but, you know, hey, it was home. It was all home. It was the smell of the neighborhood, the cooking and so forth. Don't be afraid to ask. If I don't know, nothing wrong with that. I don't know a lot of things.

Student [00:17:59] You said you moved to the Glenville area. Can you remember how it was?

Melvin Walker [00:18:08] Oh, I can remember- Well, that's where I went to school. Okay, elementary. I started elementary school at Kinsman Elementary School on 79th in Kinsman, right on the corner. That's where I started attending school. And then I forget exactly what year that my mom moved to the Glenville area. And then I attended, like, Empire, well elementary first. I attended Miles Standish, Doan Elementary. Then I went to Empire Junior High School, where I ran track, etcetera. And after that, I went to Glenville High School. Now, during my coming up and so forth, I played basketball for Greater Abyssinia Church, Cory Church, you know, which is all over on 105 between Superior and St. Clair Avenue. I mean, all the schools were located in that area.

Mark Tebeau [00:19:22] Now, one of the things they'll not know about is apparently 105th used to be, like a shopping district?

Melvin Walker [00:19:28] Yes.

Mark Tebeau [00:19:28] Could you describe it for them?

Melvin Walker [00:19:30] They called 105 from, say, Quincy to St. Clair, it was called the Gold Coast, and that's what it really was. There were so many businesses and so forth, especially Euclid Avenue. I think we had four theaters right there, four or five theaters right there at 105 and Euclid between, say, 102nd and 106th and Euclid, you had four major theaters, okay? You had stores where you could buy clothes and so forth. We didn't have to go downtown. You could go right there on 105 and buy your clothes, outfit your family, have your entertainment, and you didn't have to go downtown. Well, we went downtown, but didn't have to go downtown. They had theaters like 79th and Hough. They had a theater there, I forget the name of it. They had the Pla-Mor skating rink was, say, Cedar Avenue and 106, was a skating rink. And like I said, if you ask me specific questions, I could answer. If I go back to my memories, there's so many places that I could talk about, you know, different clubs, dance, you know, where we wouldn't dance. And it was all, like, not all fun, but mostly fun, you know, and we had places to go. You never ran out anywhere to go and that good-

Mark Tebeau [00:21:19] Where did you dance?

Melvin Walker [00:21:21] Where did I dance? I tried to dance all over. They had the Lucky Strike on 105 in Euclid going towards Carnegie. It was a dance hall we used to go to.

Mark Tebeau [00:21:36] What kind of music did they play? What was it like inside? Describe it.

Melvin Walker [00:21:40] Oh, okay. I don't know if you're a music fan.

Mark Tebeau [00:21:43] They are.

Melvin Walker [00:21:44] Okay, well, you had, I remember when the first male go-go dancers came out, for example. I mean, they were in a cage and they used to dance, you know, and we danced on the ballroom floor, you know, with them and whatever. We had a ball, you know. I mean, it wasn't just one place. It was like all over. They had clubs on Hough. You had the project hall and all that. I mean, we just, we just had fun. Like when I used to swim, I used to go around. It'd be a group of us, and we'd go around to different swimming pools throughout the city, just diving, different dives and so forth. Down at the POC, we used to dive off the lights. I don't know if the lights are there, climb up on the platform and dive off the, you know, the lights and stuff. Jackknives and one leg jacks. Swan dives. I mean, I had fun with it like that. I had fun. It wasn't as much, say, violence that's going on now. I mean, you had fights and people would fight, but they didn't have any weapons, let's say. I boxed. I used to box in the Golden Gloves. And like I said, there's so much I can say and possibly tell you bringing it back to my memory is something, because I'm thinking about playing basketball and different things out in California and just bouncing around.

Student [00:23:28] Can I ask you, what was your mother or your parents like?

Melvin Walker [00:23:32] Well, I came up predominantly in a one family home. My mother and father were separated when I was say, like five years old. They had divorced, so I was basically a one parent home, just my mom and my brother. I had one brother, no sisters, just my brother and I. And it was, hey, it was all right. My mom worked, you know, she went out and worked and provided for- She bought a house, you know, etcetera, you know, so. She worked in a factory, okay. And she took care of us, my brother and I, and we went to church. She took us to church. You know, I went to church and I even, let's say, studied the old witnesses at one time on my own with my family. I was introduced to that right down on Outhwaite, let's say. And there's so many things I can say because I remember when they built Tri C. I remember when this place, I don't know, I forgot what year it was, but I was attending. I mean, I attended Tri-C when it was down on- It was Prospect, I believe. I think I first went to Tri-C in 1975 when I first took a class. I never graduated now, but I would take a class here and there, you know, depending on my interests at that time. I'm into music, psychology, philosophy. I was studying nursing at one time. I didn't go through with the nursing because when I was coming up, nurses were- Male nurses were looked at kind of peculiar, you know, so I didn't finish that. But that was way back there in the past, you know. Right now would be a beautiful opportunity because I have a strong background in the medical field. I received my EMT out in California. That was 1976, I believe, you know, when I got my EMT certification in California, I worked at hospitals as surgical orderly, general orderly. Oh, there's a lot I can say about hospitals, a lot I can say about factories. Machinist. I was a machinist for quite a period of time. I used to work for the Illuminating Company at one time, like I said, 32 different jobs when I counted at one time. So it's a lot of places I worked, you know, doing my lifespan so far. They're even trying to find me a job now, but I don't- I doubt it. But anyway, I try to stay active, okay? I'm active. Like I said, I volunteer at VA hospital, working with my fellow veterans. Spinal cord injury. Really, you see, I had my leg amputated in, well, September 12, 2012, and they amputated this. There's so much. I've had open-heart surgery, I've had strokes, I've had heart attacks, but I'm still here. And all I can say is, just as far as life is concerned, keep on going, you know. Don't give up on it. My attitude is, you know, you might say I'm a little unbalanced, I don't know. But whatever happens, I try to keep on going. And you can find something to do, you know, you can always find something to do. Life has a lot of opportunities, and you just have to just go for it, you know? I just hope and wish and pray that all of you all follow your dreams that you have now and follow through with them. You can make it.

Mark Tebeau [00:28:07] Mr. Walker, could you tell us a little bit about when you were carrying mail? What did the neighborhood look like? Do you, for example, remember Hough, League Park? Could you describe the neighborhood [school bell rings] before the riots?

Melvin Walker [00:28:23] It was peaceful, let's say, before the riots. And like I said, it was community. I say the neighborhoods were family oriented. And, I mean, you had your jugheads, let's say, that would cause a little disruption, you know, here and there. But the projects, you know, always have almost, say, looked the same. But there were so many different businesses and homes that were lost from these areas because of the riots and so forth, and they never really got it back to where it was as far as occupancy. And I'd have to see pictures of, say, maybe different streets and so forth and reach back into my mind and say, oh, well, so this was there and etcetera. But they were clean. The neighborhoods were clean. I mean, compared to now, you had more people, I'll put it like that, more families. And people were raising their families. They weren't- You didn't have so many, say, one-parent homes during that time.

Mark Tebeau [00:29:42] So your family was a little bit unusual?

Melvin Walker [00:29:46] Yes, but then again, it wasn't unusual. Compared to today it was unusual. Back then it was like everyday, you know, that was life. And, okay, I can remember, like, when they had the ragman, the iceman, coalman, and they had wagons. I mean, you know, horse-drawn wagons, you know, and I used to, you know, love to see the horses and stuff, pulling the wagons and whatever, because that's the only opportunity, let's say, I had to see the horses and so forth. But wasn't any trouble. People made it, you know, it wasn't a lot of money, I guess, but they stuck in there and they took care of their own. They raised their families. And you know, did the best they could, you know, depending on their circumstances. Like I said, I remember carrying mail to Jane Addams when Jane Addams was on Carnegie. I remember carrying, you know, to other schools, too, in different areas, because we're all in zone three. I could tell you about St. Clair, you know, Superior, Wade Park. You know, so many places. Okay, for instance, the post office you had C-4 [school bell rings] was located on 55th, let's say, and Woodland. That was zone four, Station C. Station B was located then at 55th and Chester. Okay? Now, they combined C and three and moved it down to 55th and White. So I remember when that post office was built. There's so many things that I know that was built during my lifetime so far. And there's so many things y'all are building now.

Mark Tebeau [00:31:52] So describe what you would do on a typical day when you were carrying mail.

Melvin Walker [00:31:58] Okay. I would- I think we started at 6:30 in the morning. I punch in, et cetera, you know, and talk to my peers and so forth. And case the route, get the mail, go to the mail, get the collection. Well, not the collection, but the dispatchers that came in and get my different mail and so forth, and go to case. When I say case mail, like a pigeon hole thing and slots, different addresses and streets and so forth, I would case up the route that I was going to carry. And at a certain time, it'd be tie-out time where we tie out different, you know, bundles for the different areas and send our dispatchers out and carry the mail out that we gonna hand-carry going to the route. And I would say, leave the station and maybe go have a bite to eat. That would be my breakfast. That would be maybe about 9:00 in the morning, have breakfast and then go out to the route and start my day's delivery. And I would carry mail to whatever area I was in. And that was approximately up to maybe twelve or one, and have lunch and then go back to the route and finish and be back at the station, say, 2:00 or 2:30 so I could, you know, get ready to punch out. And it's a lot to explain as far as marking up the transient mail and people that had left the area, you know, and sending it through. I mean, it's so involved. Jobs are involved and job description, you know. I had fun. I'll put it like that.

Mark Tebeau [00:33:56] So where did you eat breakfast and lunch? Did you eat at-?

Melvin Walker [00:33:58] I used to eat at different places, depending. But mostly I'd eat at Valerio's. It was at 55th and Euclid, which was a restaurant and they had a bar combined to it. I usually would eat there because it was within walking distance from the station the next block, and then after breakfast, leave out on my delivery, get on a bus and go to whatever area I had to carry in zone three.

Mark Tebeau [00:34:29] So you took a bus to your route?

Melvin Walker [00:34:33] We weren't allowed to drive at that time. Okay, you had to take a bus. That was it, you know, but you're talking about 19-. See I started carrying mail in 1964, okay? So in '64, they didn't allow that driving around or using your own vehicles, you know, so you took the bus.

Student [00:35:00] Can you describe how POC [Portland-Outhwaite Center] looked at the time?

Melvin Walker [00:00:35:06] Okay, they had the building, you know, the center, Burton Center, where they played basketball and stuff inside. That was located right there. Then you had, let's say the next big thing was the swimming pool. They had the swimming pool. And like I said, they had towers. The tower go up high and so forth. The basketball court was, say, east of the swimming pool. They were all, like, connected together, you know, like the building there, the Burton Center, were indoor swimming pool, basketball court, big field where East Tech practiced their band and football and so forth back there. And they were on, like, cinders. I mean, they didn't have the grass and so forth that they have now. We'd be out there playing football in the cinders and so on. No equipment or whatever, you know, just playing, you know, football, basketball, whatever. You used what you had. You know, the resources that you have was right there. We used it. We enjoyed it. You know, you didn't have all this modern cars and race cars that we had, say, like gas station toy, you know, which was a big thing for me. When I got to my play gas station, nothing in there moved. I mean, it was just stationary, but it's just your imagination. We used a lot of imagination because it wasn't as modern as now and then, like soldiers. We had toy soldiers. They were stationary, didn't move, little plastic soldiers and Indians and cowboys and our little house. And, you know, I mean, imagination, a lot of it imagination, because they didn't have all this modern technology that children have now.

Student [00:37:14] So the inside, how was the inside?

Melvin Walker [00:37:17] Inside the POC? I can remember it was nice, you know. Like I said, the only thing mainly I was interested in was that basketball court. So basketball courts have looked the same throughout the years almost, you know. I mean, the baskets themselves might have changed, the backboards, you know, that changed because they had, they came out with collapsible backboards, you know. They didn't have all that when I was coming up. You jumped up there and you hit it hard. You just took it, you know, and then collapsed. It stood there, you know, boom. But, oh, wow. In a way- [silence from 00:38:04 to 00:38:19] -and, you know, being active and just keep trying to be active. Just keep on going. I know y'all probably-

Student [00:38:39] How would you describe your very first job?

Melvin Walker [00:38:41] My favorite job?

Student [00:38:43] Your very first job where you worked.

Melvin Walker [00:38:44] Oh, my first job. Well, okay, I'd say my first significant job was as a packer at a supermarket, which was Buy-Rite supermarket. It was located at 105th and Olivet on the corner. And I bagged groceries. You had a man at each cash register that would pack the groceries and put them in a bag so the people wouldn't drop them and the bag wouldn't burst, and we stocked the shelves as far as different items that they had ran out of. And then the truck would come in and we had to put them up and square the shelves off, and mark, you know, mark the different items as far as prices, and help the customers to their cars with their groceries, etcetera. That part is still the same today in some places. Okay. And it was nice, you know, it was my first job. I was getting a paycheck, you know, the first job, besides carrying papers as a paper boy, you know. And it was nice. I enjoyed it because my friends and their families would come into the store, and I enjoyed interacting with them and strangers and so forth, meeting new people and etcetera.

Student [00:40:20] And what about your favorite?

Melvin Walker [00:40:25] Well, that was the post office, I'd say, you know, and like I say, I like to interact with people. I like people. I'm, I guess, a people person. You might as well say, a busybody people person.

Student [00:40:41] What was your favorite food that your mom cooked?

Melvin Walker [00:40:44] Roast beef. Roast beef. You had different things, sides that went along with the roast beef, but I could just eat the roast beef. And then I was crazy about beans. I used to make bean sandwiches, not because I had to, but I like beans, and I like bread also. So I used to make bean sandwiches, but I like beans, rice, spaghetti, you know, things like that. Just about- I didn't like okra, okay? I eat it now, but I didn't like it then when I was coming up. But, you know, the cake and dessert and stuff, you know, like potato pies and graham cracker pies, lemon pies. I mean, I could go on, apple pies, you know. I mean, I like all that, you know? And my mom made all of that, and she made it. Well, my grandmother, I think, could outcook my mom, but that's all right. They all were good.

Mark Tebeau [00:41:50] So I have two questions. How much money did you make an hour when you were bagging groceries, do you remember?

Melvin Walker [00:41:56] Oh, about, oh, wow. It might have been less than a dollar an hour then when I started, because I remember starting at the post office. When I started the post office, I think it was like $2.16 an hour or something like that. Back then. Yeah, that was a nice pay there, back there, you know, but there's nothing now. Yeah. I mean, I had, like I said, I worked at a post office, and I worked at hospitals, too, like before the post office. And I was the only one working, okay? With a wife and four children, let's say, because it was after the last baby that my wife got a job, you know, when she started working. And we did all right, I had the accounts at Rosenblum's - and Rosenblum's is gone now - and Sears, Sears and Roebuck. Rosenblum household finance. I had to think about that. That was a financial corporation. But my credit was good. My credit was good. Good enough for me to purchase a home back at that time, you know, off of that small salary. But it was enough, you know, it was enough to take care of family. I forgot what everything cost, different things cost at that time.

Mark Tebeau [00:43:22] So my second question is, you mentioned your, you were born at St. Luke's Hospital here in Cleveland. But your family came from Mississippi. I guess your grandmother?

Melvin Walker [00:43:33] Grandmother, mother and father, my only brother.

Mark Tebeau [00:43:38] Most of the students don't know that story about the movement of people from the South, so could you tell us what you know about your family's migration from Mississippi to Cleveland? Why and when it happened?

Melvin Walker [00:43:49] Well, the reason they migrated was to get a better job, to make more money. And they were in farmland, you know, and they phased out a lot of the farms, let's say. And people migrated from the South to find work. And that's basically what it was, because they couldn't make any money in the South, so they came to the North for money to provide better, to have a better life. And first, I think, my grandmother and grandfather, and they came up here, and then they sent for the children when they got the money or, you know, they got the resources and so forth, they started sending for their children. And the children started coming up here because they were all grown, you know, when they migrated from Mississippi, say, up here. So I have family still in Mississippi and Louisiana, New Orleans, and Mississippi, Jackson, whatever. I have family say all over. I speak about my children. I have a son that lives in Boston. He teaches school up in Boston. I have a daughter out in California. I have a daughter in Michigan. I have a daughter in Minnesota. I have one here, you know. So from Boston, I say to California, my children, I have seven children and 19 grand. That's me, you know, I have seven children that I'm the father of, that I know about, anyway, and 19 grandchildren, you know, but that's only my children, you know. Like, I would say you all could do what y'all want to do. I did my part as far as having children and coming up, and it gives me something to do now, see, I can go visit my children. I go out to California sometimes and spend a month, you know, and then the closer, you know, I have children in Michigan and so forth, and I say, in central United States or whatever, I go visit them.

Mark Tebeau [00:46:14] So you also remember Gleason's and jazz. We were asking you about music. So what kind of music did you like and did you see at clubs? And could you describe that for us?

Melvin Walker [00:46:25] Rock and roll.

Mark Tebeau [00:46:26] Okay, well, what rock and roll acts?

Melvin Walker [00:46:28] What acts? Oh, man. Come on, man. How old are you?

Mark Tebeau [00:46:32] Well, I'm closer to you than I am to them.

Melvin Walker [00:46:36] Well, I'm talking about as far as music era, you know.

Mark Tebeau [00:46:39] I grew up in the seventies. I was a kid in the seventies to eighties, seventies, eighties.

Melvin Walker [00:46:43] Okay. So you had the- That was, like, the love thing and the mellow music and so forth. And when I started coming up, it was, say, the rock and roll, which was still love music, but then it was more or less, say, your line dances, you know. Oh, thank you. Your line dance. Oh, excuse me. The line dances and so forth, you know. But ballroom, I used to like to slow dance, you know, do the slop. I don't know if you know anything about the slop.

Mark Tebeau [00:47:19] What's the slop?

Melvin Walker [00:47:20] It's a dance.

Mark Tebeau [00:47:21] I know, but what do you do?

Melvin Walker [00:47:22] Well, you move your feet. [laughs] You know? It was like- I don't know what I can call it. [pauses to drink water] Excuse me. I don't know what you can call. It's the different steps. It'd be easier if I could, to get up and show you than it would be to tell you exactly what you did. I mean, we had the Madison, slop, the jerk.

Mark Tebeau [00:47:55] Why did they call it the slop?

Melvin Walker [00:47:57] Because it was like. No, the footwork, let's say the sliding of your feet and- Oh, man, you know. Okay, the jerk. The twist. I mean, I used to twist. I mean, I used to twist so much, you know, my sides would be hurting and so forth. But I enjoyed dancing. I used to try to do it all, you know, twisting and- I don't know what they're doing today. I don't know what they call it. The hoo, the jerk, not the jerk didn't come back then. And then a lot of the dancers, you know, they come back. It's the same dance that we used to do, but they have a different name for it, you know, they call it something else, the generation now.

Mark Tebeau [00:48:45] So could you give us an example of, do you remember a particular band or a song that you really liked?

Melvin Walker [00:48:51] I used to love Smokey Robinson. Okay? She's Not a Bad Girl. She's Not a Bad Girl. I can't sing. Because and so forth. I liked Impressions. I liked Gypsy Woman. And one record they might be able to relate to. I used to love to do the dog, you know. Well, I did, gotta tell it like it is, okay? So, I mean, still like the thought and, oh, man. Ooh, well, we won't go there. But I love music. Okay? But for myself, I really like jazz. Okay? That's the music that I could sit down and just listen to. And I enjoy jazz. I enjoy, like, John Coltrane, Charlie Parker, Les McCann. There's so many. Today I don't know who's singing and what they're singing most of the time, but I liked Whitney Houston and her records and so forth. I enjoyed all that, you know? And then when I was coming up was Nancy Wilson, you know, Dionne Warwick, you know, and I used to go see 'em. Okay, Lou Rawls. I liked Lou Rawls. I don't know if you know anything about Lou Rawls. See, that's what I'm saying. It's that music gap, you know. When they came out with the rap, they kind of lost track of me. But I got into it a little bit. But I was lost. But I look at that as the same way when I was coming up. When rock and roll came out, my parents couldn't stand it. The churches, they didn't like rock and roll, just like we don't like rap now. So I allow myself to think that, hey, it was the same way, generation to generation. You know, when you all get up and have children and so forth, it's going to be a lot of things you don't like your children doing, you know, and they're gonna introduce to you. You just wait, you'll see. You know? Yust like maybe you're giving your parents a little difficulty in this area, that area. It'll come back on you. It will come back on you, believe me. So if you live long enough, you'll see that, hey, that old man knew something about something, anyway. But just be prepared and be tolerant and try to understand. So.

Mark Tebeau [00:51:43] So what did they play at Leo's Casino?

Melvin Walker [00:51:47] Well, this is what I'm saying, like, Lou Rawls would be live and all the artists, and Dionne Warwick would come, and Nancy Wilson. It depends on what was a popular record that they had brought out. I remember, like, Lou Rawls' album - you probably know of Lou Rawls, maybe. Tobacco Road, that was recorded at Leo's Casino. That album, Lou Rawls Live, has Tobacco Road and all that on it, that album was recorded right there, Leo's Casino. Go ahead.

Mark Tebeau [00:52:23] What about Gleason's?

Melvin Walker [00:52:25] Now, Gleason's had- That was mostly blues and so forth. Gleason was right there at 55th and Woodland.

Mark Tebeau [00:52:32] And what did- Do you remember any particular act or time you might experience?

Melvin Walker [00:52:37] Well, I was too young, really, to go to see the entertainment at that time. Okay? But hear my mom and them talking about going. Like, they go down there and see Big Maybell and B.B. King and all that. They come into town. I couldn't go, but I heard my parents and, you know, my peers, you know, talking about different things there. Now, when I talk about Lou Rawls and so forth, I was able to attend. I was old enough to go myself, but not at Gleason's.

Mark Tebeau [00:53:09] And you also told us you went to California. When did you go to California, and why did you go to California?

Melvin Walker [00:53:15] I went to California because of a divorce, okay? And I wanted to get away from the wife and Cleveland and everything. I needed- I wanted to relocate. And they used to always say, go west, young man, when I was coming up. So I went west, okay? [laughs] All the way west to the ocean. And, you know, California was always portrayed as being the land of sunshine and etcetera, you know. And I went out there and, hey, it was all right, but it wasn't the land of sunshine exactly. But, uh.

Mark Tebeau [00:53:51] When was this?

Melvin Walker [00:53:53] 1967. That's when I got my divorce from the first wife. 1967.

Mark Tebeau [00:53:59] So where did you live in Los Angeles?

Melvin Walker [00:54:02] Oh, I lived in, let's say, Compton, the last place I lived. I lived in Watts also. I could talk about 103rd. I could talk about Griffith Park up there where the Hollywood sign is, because I went there, you know, number of times, really. Elysian Park. That's the valley. San Fernando Valley, Van Nuys. You know, like I said, I carried mail out there, too. And I carried mail on, say, in Del Valle station, which included Hollywood, some parts of Hollywood. And let me see, it was downtown, let's say L.A., Los Angeles. I carried mail at the Occidental Life Insurance Building, which had 30 floors, okay? And a mail room right in the building. So my route was predominantly that one building. And I had a truck, you know, so much mail. We had a truck to bring the mail, take you to the mail, mail room and so forth. And the different establishments within that building. It had Occidental life, Pacific life, Pacific Finance, Transamerica Corporation and so forth. KUNT. KUNT FM radio station. All of these things was right in that 30-story building at that time. And hey, it was- It was all right. Like it was all right here. When I carried business routes and zone three and so forth, you know, I'd been residential. So the post office, I had to say, was my favorite because of, it was more changes and more people that I came in contact with. And just being out in the streets and not being confined inside a building, you know, at that time I couldn't stand being. Well, I didn't like being in stationary in one building. Say, just working, in fact, I have worked in factories. But in my latter time of my life, the latter years. I used to work at Gould's where we made torpedoes, you know, machinery, you know, CNC, NCCNC machine, machinists, okay? That's Numerical Control and Computer Numerical Control tooling centers. And tooling centers is machines where they did different functions, you know, as far as drilling holes and making things smooth and whatever, you know. You had to be a machinist or something to understand what I'm really talking about. But that was very interesting too, you know, as far as the skill, and the skilled work. And I enjoyed nursing. I enjoyed putting catheters- I started putting catheters in patients in 1963. I worked at CPI. I used to be a psychiatric attendant. I've been assisting when they were giving shock treatments to people that were kind of mentally unstable. They had to give them that electric shock in order to calm them down, you know. So like I said, I had a lot of different jobs. I did a lot of different things.

Mark Tebeau [00:57:56] I was going to ask you when you came back.

Melvin Walker [00:57:57] To stay?

Mark Tebeau [00:57:59] To Cleveland, yeah.

Melvin Walker [00:58:02] 1976.

Mark Tebeau [00:58:06] And where did you live then?

Melvin Walker [00:58:09] When I came back? Oh lord, I lived over in the Glenville area. My mom still had the house, say 102nd and Westchester, 105 and Westchester, which is 1, 2, 3, 4 streets west of Superior. And that's the area. When I came back, I'd go back to my mom's, you know, leave from out of town. I mean, I didn't have a wife here, you know, because I was divorced. I left one out in California at that time. But that's where I would stay. I'd go back to, say, where I was raised and that's where I would stay until I got a job and moved out on my own somewhere else.

Student [00:59:03] What was your very first piece of technology?

Melvin Walker [00:59:07] The very first?

Student [00:59:08] Very first piece of technology.

Melvin Walker [00:59:11] Piece of-?

Student [00:59:12] Technology.

Melvin Walker [00:59:13] Technology? Now, you have to kind of define technology for me. Okay?

Student [00:59:20] [inaudible]

Melvin Walker [00:59:30] Well, you see, that's kind of a hard question for me to answer because I look at most of my jobs, you know, as being technical in a sense, you know, that work.

Student [00:59:56] Can you describe, like, how you spend your holidays or your most favorite holiday?

Melvin Walker [01:00:05] I say my first favorite, most favorite, would be 4th of July. I say that because it seemed like everybody celebrates the 4th of July, their Independence Day. And you had activities going along all the time and, you know, being in the summer and so forthm people would be at the park and they'd be in their backyards or whatever, you know, barbecuing or cooking and having fun. You know. 4th of July to me is like family-oriented because most times you be with your family on the Fourth and you'd be in a festive mood. I'd say that was my favorite. Christmas would be my most sentimental, you know, but I say 4th of July.

Student [01:01:00] We're out of time.

Melvin Walker [01:01:01] Yeah, I knew that. You're more than welcome. I wish I had more time and I wish I could- Well, anytime that I could assist anybody, you know, I will, and I hope I didn't bore you all and I don't know, you know, I got started, I don't want to get how to stop. I got stuck outside trying to get in here and all that because. You know. But I enjoyed it. And thank you all for letting me come. Okay? [several people speaking at once] All of y'all look familiar to me. Yeah. The lady back there kept asking me the questions-

Mark Tebeau [01:01:46] Could you sign, put your name and signature so that we can put this in our oral history archive?